Hammerhead
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 03:56 PM |
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LED lights - whats the score?
Hi I started a thread last week regarding my LED R1 tail lights that I have fitted led indicators into (see my archive if interested)
Some people have suggested that this will not pass sva. But the question is how do manufacturers like Range Rover, TVR, BMW (M3) and of course Yamaha
get away with using them? I can't believe that production vehicles have less strict rules than we have.
I think if this area can be cleared up it will allow us a lot more creativity as builders in the choice of lights we use.
Looking forward to the replys.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 04:01 PM |
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Mine passed SVA with all LED rear lights I think they are E marked though
linky
Cheers
Mark
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asn163
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 04:04 PM |
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Hi, No problem re. SVA and LED lights, we used them for everything but head and front side lights. Only trouble we had was getting the flash rate
right for the indicators. Fixed this by wiring the original bike indicators into circuit and hiding them under nosecone.
Simon
[Edited on 7/9/06 by asn163]
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Hammerhead
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 04:07 PM |
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thanks for the replies so far - Razman among others suggested that if led's are used and just get brighter when the brake is applied its a fail,
thats why i've raised the Q really.
My lenses are E marked so hopefully that wont be a preblem.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 04:18 PM |
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LED lights are being fitted as std on more and more vehicles. I fit them daily to artic trailers and they are all e marked. The only problem is (and
it's a very grey area) indicators.
Basically the LED is a much lighter load and you need to fit a resistor in parrallel to simulate a bulb. This allows the flasher to operate at the
correct speed. However if the LEDS fail, or become disconnected, the the resistor fools the flasher unit into still working, thereby keeping the
mandatory warning light going on the dash (this is the problem grey area as you cant tell if you've got a bulb fail)
I'd still go with LEDs myself.
Oh and as for the brake using the same Leds but looking brighter I've seen both
i.e. ones that get brighter AND ones that have extra LEDs within the same housing (illuminated area)
[Edited on 7/9/06 by omega 24 v6]
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Macbeast
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 04:25 PM |
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For what it's worth....I've read that SVA is quite strict (for our protection ) and that many production cars would not pass
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Hammerhead
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 04:29 PM |
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I agree whole heartedly that we should be protected from ourselves 
I just think it's strange that we are subjected to stricter rules that say a ford focus that will be sold to hundreds of thousands of people.
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caber
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 08:09 PM |
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Manufacturer's lights will all meet the E standard even if not marked. They really have tight specifications right down to the wavelength of the
colours used!
Caber
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wilkingj
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 09:57 PM |
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BIG WARNING over LED LIGHTS.
To make them flash at the right rate you add these big resistor packs. Electrically thats fine, as the Flasher units are Load dependent.
The BIG issue is simply that these resistor packs have to dissipate a lot of heat. Please DO NOT tape them up in the wiring loom. PLEASE mount them in
a open area with lots of ventilation and air space around them.
I know of a car where the chap fitted LED indicator lights and made a nice job of hiding the resistor packs in the loom and neatly taped them all
up.
Sure to say, the packs got hot, melted the insulation on the wiring. Which in turn caused a short circuit and resulted in a fire which just about
totalled his car.
Please fit thse resistor packs carefully. Also remember they dont have to be fitted by the bulb / light unit. They can be fitted anywhere as long as
they are in circuit electrically speaking, which chould make the job a little easier.
Please take care with electrical installations on your cars.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 7/9/06 at 10:28 PM |
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Very good point wilkingj.
I should have mentioned it in my post. The ones we've fitted in the past have heat sinks on them. As we've only ever fitted them on
indicator circuits Which are light/non continuous use I've never seen any heat damage from them. But they are a large physical size (3/4 inch
dia by 1 1/2 long) so in continuous use cycles I'd imagine quite a bit of heat would be generated.
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wilkingj
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| posted on 8/9/06 at 07:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
Very good point wilkingj.
The ones we've fitted in the past have heat sinks on them. As we've only ever fitted them on indicator circuits Which are light/non
continuous use I've never seen any heat damage from them. But they are a large physical size (3/4 inch dia by 1 1/2 long) so in continuous use
cycles I'd imagine quite a bit of heat would be generated.
Thats the point of the heat sink is to dissipate the heat from the resistor. Just wrapping the bare resistors in the loom, is a real No No and a real
fire risk .
You ONLY need the resistor packs on the indicators. The Flash rate is dependent upon the load presented to the flasher unit. LED's take very
little current, hence the flash rate becomes very high. The Resistor pack is needed to draw more current and hence lower the flash rate.
No other LED lights need these packs, ONLY the Indicators, due to the above reason.
In fact in a VERY SMALL way Led lights are an advantage, they draw less current, and hence you dont need to genereate that extra power, allowing the
engine to put that power into motive forces.
Mind you its very minimal.
2 x 21W = 42W saved. 1HP =750Watts.
So its a fraction of one Horse Power
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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Hammerhead
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| posted on 8/9/06 at 10:42 AM |
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The indicators i am using are direct replacement car ones. So there are no large resistors. I will plug them into my tin top and see what happens.
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JamJah
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| posted on 9/9/06 at 05:17 AM |
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silly question, but why isnt a led flash unit made avaible? 12 or more years ago we made circuits that flash as a CDT project,whats the difference?
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 9/9/06 at 09:32 AM |
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You can get a time based flasher unit that is not load dependant. This would do away with the resistor pack. However, we're back into the grey
area, as the flasher unit will keep on flashing regardless of a bulb failure which is the reason for the load dependant flasher unit.
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Steve @ sVc
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| posted on 12/9/06 at 04:34 PM |
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LED resistors - yes they can get hot, but generally this takes a long time, so its only when the hazards are on that they are likely to be very
hot.
The ones we have at sVc are mounted on an ally plate - a simple heat sink. We, when asked advise them to be fitted behind the dash - well out of the
way of other parts.
The "E" marked Ultrabright LEDs have never, to my knowledge failed SVA, but the the point about the warning light not letting you know of
an indicator failure, is well made.
Yes, I also have heard that some production car lights will not pass SVA. Especially the BMW "angel eyes".
I'm told by a friend in Germany they had huge problems with these when they were brought out.
Steve @ sVc
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