robroy
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 08:18 PM |
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small transaxles
Hello everyone.
I'm planning a lightweight single seater for road/track use and am not sure on what transaxle to use.
I'm planning on using a 1.0 litre engine with a puny 100 - 120 hp/lb/ft and so I feel the Audi/subaru boxes are too over engineered and heavy
for my application. Also too bulky as I require a 'slim' transaxle.
My questions are:
Has there been any small engined car built with a transaxle within the last 10 years? A japanese kei car maybe? I can't think of any.
Am I limited to using an upside down old VW or imp unit? I believe the beetle transaxle weighs 29kg, any idea on the imp box weight?
Anyone know which is most reliable, compact, has best gear change etc?
Am I overlooking another classic transaxle?
Please help!
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Johnmor
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 08:33 PM |
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Alfa sud
Bit more than ten years ago but you often see them on e-bay. look like this.
Same as Alfa 33, you may even get a nifty little flat four (105bhp) 1500 engine to go with it
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Alan B
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 09:01 PM |
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Hi Robroy...I'm assuming you are meaning a longditudinal (N/S) transaxle? when you say "Has there been any small engined car built with a
transaxle within the last 10 years? "..otherwise the answer is actually, yes, loads of them if you include transverse (E/W) transaxles.
I suspect a VW or variant thereof is your best bet.
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robroy
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 09:08 PM |
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Thanks.
Any idea how much it weighs and the width from cv joint to cv joint with/without the inboard brakes?
Also, is there any particular model or year of gearbox that is best, or were they pretty much the same from sud to 33?
I very much like Italian engineering.
I currently have a spare Lancia Fulvia transaxle, but it's too heavy (45kg ish) and too wide at 360mm!
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novacaine
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 09:40 PM |
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Renault 25?
And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but its sinking, Racing around to come up behind you again, the sun is the same in a relative way but
your older, shorter of breath and one day closer to death
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rj
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 09:44 PM |
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My first car was an Alfasud Sprint, lovely car ,std ratios close , the Alfasuds had inboard brakes , but I think the 33's went outboard,
backward step if you ask me ! sorry cant help with dimensions or weight , but I do know that Subaru boxes are heavy
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Joe T
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 11:19 PM |
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Imp boxes still appear on ebay, plus their were a few upgrades and tweaks for them.
Off on a bit of a tangent but
Skoda? 130 rapid etc
Citroen 2cv, GS, DS,
The DS box was used by lotus in the early days.
Cheers
Joe T
Costin Roadster Project
Work in progress
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Chippy
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 11:47 PM |
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If I remember correctly, you don't need to turn the VW Beetle transaxle upside down, you can remove the crownwheel and fit it on the other side.
Pretty sure I recall somebody doing it, some time ago though. Worth looking into. HTH Cheers Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 01:02 AM |
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The obvious answer is get a Hewland! A good used T9 5-speed will cost about £1400. Not exactly low-cost I know, but quality and versatility never is.
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Doug68
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 01:08 AM |
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I would have thought the 5 speed Citroen DS - GS would be a perfect unit.
5th was definitely an overdrive gear, but gave a remarkably high cruising speed on the one we used to have.
This probably wouldn't be an issue as I expect you'd use smaller diameter wheels.
Doug. 1TG
Sports Car Builders WA
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Fred W B
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 05:54 AM |
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An older "small" transaxle that is correctly orientated for longitudinal mounting will be from an 4 cylinder audi 80. I believe that you
can get a 5 speed, but most were 4 speed?
It is smaller than the audi 016 usually used in GT40's etc that comes from the 5 cylinder audis
Cheers
Fred W B
[Edited on 1/2/08 by Fred W B]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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Ratman
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 07:58 AM |
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One thing to take into account is the available ratios. If you build a light weight car with a regular saloon transmission then you will find that you
want closer ratios, so one thing you should consider is the availability of alternative ratios and at what cost. My experience is limited to the old
VW box. These are not too expensive, Not heavy, very strong, can be easily converted to mid engine layout and there is a ready market for alternative
ratios for 3rd and 4th gears (lower than std ratios). But if you plan small diameter wheels (less than 600mm) you will find you are doing 5,000 rpm
down the highway at 100 kph in top gear of your close ratio box. This is a pain.
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Delinquent
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 10:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Memphis Twin
The obvious answer is get a Hewland! A good used T9 5-speed will cost about £1400. Not exactly low-cost I know, but quality and versatility never is.
You mean an expensive VW box then 
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 12:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Delinquent
quote:
Originally posted by Memphis Twin
The obvious answer is get a Hewland! A good used T9 5-speed will cost about £1400. Not exactly low-cost I know, but quality and versatility never is.
You mean an expensive VW box then
No I don't.
He doesn't say what engine he's looking at (too embarassed?!) , but any sub-litre engine making over 100bhp is going to need a much closer
ratio gearbox than a standard road car. Most of the previously mentioned road-car boxes will be virtually useless with a peaky little engine, and once
you start looking at expensive alternative gear-kits for them, you may as well get the proper thing to begin with.
The Hewland allows selection of the correct ratios to suit the power charcteristics of the motor, is very strong, rebuildable, and worth every penny
in terms of convenience and packaging.
£1400 for what is actually a vital major part of the finished vehicle is actually very reasonable. I wouldn't look anywhere else...
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robroy
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 08:19 PM |
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Thanks for all the responses!
The engine is currently likely to be a Daihatsu 3-cylinder turbo, although I'm keeping an eye on newer engines like the Toyota VVTi 3-cyl or the
Fiat twin coming in 2009. (I like small engines!)
I was hoping to have a gearbox quieter than the engine. Has anybody driven long road journeys with a Hewland equipped car. Are they unbearable?
I've also heard the old Hewland and VW are 'similar'. Are they dimensionally similar, in which case I could build up my car with a
VW unit, and swap to a Hewland when I'm richer?
I shall investigate the other alternatives suggested.
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 09:34 PM |
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Early Hewlands (Mk8 + 9) used the VW casing so are dimensionally identical. They are noisier than a helical/synchro type gearbox because of the
straight cut gears, but it is actually a very pleasant evocative noise. Let's face it, you're building a mid-engined single seater so
where do creature comforts fit into the equation?!
An alternative box would be the Hewland LD200 5speed. Actually stronger than the T9 and more numerous these days. Also slightly cheaper on the used
market.
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Ratman
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 04:53 AM |
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here's a selection of close ratios for a VW box than won't break the bank
http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=close+ratio&Search1=Search
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cs3tcr
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 07:12 PM |
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What about a Renault NG3? Used in Fuego's and a popular swap for Lotus Europas. Or, do you require 5 speeds? If not Renault 16.
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david knight
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| posted on 13/8/12 at 12:03 PM |
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What did you go for in the end?
What did you go for in the end?
I’m planning on doing almost exactly the same thing (single seater with a 1lt Toyota VVTi 3-cyl engine)
Do you have weights for any of the gearboxes discussed above?
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britishtrident
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| posted on 13/8/12 at 01:43 PM |
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Imp transaxles weigh next to nothing but you would need a Jack Knight full straight cut box, 4 speed JK boxes should be findable, 5 speed JK
boxes are rare and a bit iffy anyway. The only LSD available was JK Cam & Pawl which worked rather well.
There was a kit to add a reinforcement cage round the final drive section of the casing for rally use
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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whitestu
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| posted on 13/8/12 at 02:10 PM |
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If you use an Alfasud box the ideal one is from a 1.2 ti as the ratios are much closer, but they are very rare now.
Stu
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 14/8/12 at 11:19 PM |
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Modern small audi txs might work well. The likes of the o1E are way too large (56kg), but the likes of the petrol 2001ish A4 box is shorter, all alloy
and might come in around 40kg
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