rf900rush
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 01:24 PM |
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It's a scam.
Elections coming.
Need some distractions from the real issues.
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bj928
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 01:25 PM |
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quote:
Ditto - although something that wouldn't need investment but I believe would make a significant difference to road safety would be if lorries
were immobilised and forced to park off-road during certain hours...e.g. 6am - 10am, 3pm - 8pm
here is someone thats never been in a truck or understands them, trucks have so many restictions all ready, if you add this to the equation
you'll have empty bloody shops, then you'll have something else to complain about, as a truck driver i would prefer to deliver in cities
overnight, but because of lorry bans, shops being shut over night and other things we are not able to, car drivers seem to think trucks can fit in
gaps that cars can, that they can stop as quick as a car, car drivers should go in a truck some time and see its not as easy as you think.
also if a bike rider doesn't want to get run over, why do they cycle on duel carrage ways when there is a cycle lane 6ft to there right, i used
to come out of london on the A4, lovely cycle way most the way from where the m4 elevated starts, all they way out to heathrow, must have cost
millions to put it there, and the cyclists still want to ride on the dual carrage way and risk getting run over by my truck, and getting in car
drivers way, if they want respect get on your own cycle ways and stay out the way of the cars your worried about, then the cars won't or are
less likely to hit you, doesn't take much of a brain cell to work out!!!
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 01:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
if the road is clear, then give me a reason why you cannot cycle, or indeed drive across it.
here's one - because its the law!!! I'm a cyclist too by the way and really dont understand the logic behind your thinking there. You
really think not signalling or obeying an of the rules of the road is a good thing to do?? Personally i think the police should actively prosecute
cyclists who think the laws dont apply to them - and repeat offenders should have their bike confiscated for their own and other road users safety.
Yes car drivers could and should be more considerate around cyclists....... but its not likely to happen when car drivers continually see cyclists
being a law unto themselves.
let he has not not speeded - yes, driving over the speed limits is also breaking the law, let him cast the first stone.
maybe the law should confiscate the cars of speeding motorists, how would you like that?
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BenB
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 01:37 PM |
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All I'm saying is the next time a neoprene clad roadwarrier decides to try and run me over when I've got the right of way on the
pedestrian crossing I'm buying a tazer to equal the playing field a bit. I've seen what happens when 10 stone of sweaty cyclist + a load
of tig welded aliminium tube collides with a pedestrian and it's not the cyclist who comes off worst...
I think unfortunately because some cyclists think they're doing the world a favour by not burning fossil fuels it means they can be generally
antisocial by cycling down through pedestrian-only zones, mow people down on zebra crossings, ride on the pavement, under-cut busses (thereby running
over anyone trying to get off the bus) etc etc.
When I'm a driver I'm curteous to cyclists, when (as I usually am) a pedestrian I get mighty pissed off by them. Annoyingly the little
gits go faster than I can run so I can't even run after them and push them off. I have been tempted to do an Indiana Jones
stick-something-in-the-front-spokes type trick when I've been carrying an umbrella but my reactions aren't quick enough (and it's a
nice umbrella). I think it's tazer time 
After all if we're going to get all hollier-than-thou on the environmental front pedestrians should get priority over cyclists. All that Tig
welding for those ali tubes and how much carbon does it take to produce a neoprene fluorescent gimp suit? 
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Steve G
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 01:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
if the road is clear, then give me a reason why you cannot cycle, or indeed drive across it.
here's one - because its the law!!! I'm a cyclist too by the way and really dont understand the logic behind your thinking there. You
really think not signalling or obeying an of the rules of the road is a good thing to do?? Personally i think the police should actively prosecute
cyclists who think the laws dont apply to them - and repeat offenders should have their bike confiscated for their own and other road users safety.
Yes car drivers could and should be more considerate around cyclists....... but its not likely to happen when car drivers continually see cyclists
being a law unto themselves.
let he has not not speeded - yes, driving over the speed limits is also breaking the law, let him cast the first stone.
maybe the law should confiscate the cars of speeding motorists, how would you like that?
Do it 4 times in 3 years and thats 12 points - ie a ban. Drive without insurance and the cops can confiscate your car immediately.......... so the
legislation is already in place for car drivers!!!!
[Edited on 14/11/09 by Steve G]
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Theshed
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 02:08 PM |
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This is an old story - it relates to the 5th EU Motor insurance directive - The UK was obliged to make this law in 2007 (as far as i can quickly find
out). That directive makes countries ensure that pedestrians and cyclists CAN claim off a motorists insurance. As drafted it adds nothing to the law
in the UK i.e. there is no presumption of fault.
For the very bored here is the relevant text.
Injuries and damage to property suffered by
pedestrians, cyclists and other non-motorised users of the road, who are usually the weakest party in an accident, should be covered by the compulsory
insurance of the vehicle involved in the accident where they are entitled to compensation under national civil law. This provision does not prejudge
the civil liability or the level of awards for damages in a specific accident, under national legislation.
For the record:
(1) My arse is not fat
(2) I cycle and drive
(3) I have been seriously knocked off 4 times - it hurts. I have never been hurt driving a car.
Isn't the trick to be considerate to others?
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Ivan
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 02:56 PM |
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What I don't understand is that cyclists clip their feet into the pedals and hence can't stop easily - that's largely why they
don't want to stop at traffic lights etc, or if they have no option but to stop then lean against the nearest car. Surely the pedal clips should
be banned from normal road use and only be allowed for competition purposes.
I'm sure pedal clips have contributed to more low speed accidents than have ever saved.
And yes - I am not a cyclist.
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Steve G
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 03:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
What I don't understand is that cyclists clip their feet into the pedals and hence can't stop easily - that's largely why they
don't want to stop at traffic lights etc, or if they have no option but to stop then lean against the nearest car. Surely the pedal clips should
be banned from normal road use and only be allowed for competition purposes.
I'm sure pedal clips have contributed to more low speed accidents than have ever saved.
And yes - I am not a cyclist.
LOL i can tell you arent. Clipless pedals are very easy to use and have never caused me a problem getting out of them in a hurry so nobody imho can
use them as an excuse to not stop. Toe straps are way harder to get out of in my experience from "the olden days" before clipless pedals.
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Ivan
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 03:11 PM |
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^^^
So why don't cyclists want to stop at a traffic light, and why do they go to rediculous lengths to balance in place or lean against cars when
they have to stop??
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 03:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
^^^
So why don't cyclists want to stop at a traffic light, and why do they go to rediculous lengths to balance in place or lean against cars when
they have to stop??
Because if they had travelled by car they wouldn't be running late and have to take stupid risks!
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Steve G
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 03:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ivan
^^^
So why don't cyclists want to stop at a traffic light, and why do they go to rediculous lengths to balance in place or lean against cars when
they have to stop??
because some are lazy inconsiderate idiots who think the law doesnt apply to them (plus it takes more energy to stop and start all the time -
but still no excuse to run a light)
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 03:25 PM |
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all road users should have liability insurance, then let the insurance companies sort it out.
People who use the road for transport or leisure should be covered, no group of road users should be exempt from the laws which cover motorised
vehicles.
Their vehicle, whatever it is, should be proven fit for purpose(MOT). Their insurance should be valid, and most importantly they are competent!!!!
If you had never been to this planet before and had to risk assess allowing a cyclist to share the road with motorised vehicles, fitness for purpose
and competency are the first things on the control measure list.
[Edited on 14/11/09 by liam.mccaffrey]
Build Blog
Build Photo Album
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Staple balls
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 03:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
LOL i can tell you arent. Clipless pedals are very easy to use and have never caused me a problem getting out of them in a hurry so nobody imho can
use them as an excuse to not stop. Toe straps are way harder to get out of in my experience from "the olden days" before clipless pedals.
Not to mention for anyone who rides relatively often a trackstand isn't really an issue, so no reason not to stop at lights etc.
However, IME, lights are one of the most dangerous places for a cyclist, you tend to not get noticed unless you park your arse in the middle of the
road, then people generally try to get past you as soon as they can. So your safest choices are jump the lights, and cross in various illegal manners
(usually pedestrian crossings) or get off and cross on foot, which is technically legal, but pointless (if you're on a bike at a pedestrian
crossing, you're only moving at walking speed anyway)
Probably worth mentioning here I've been hit properly 4 times, 3 times were "smidsy"s, fortunately I got away with only minor
damage to myself every time, the bike was another matter. (as were the cars, 19st of biker over a bmw does a remarkable amount of damage)
Once was partly my fault, I crossed legally and properly for a sideroad in a bad position (just past the crest of a hill), back of my bike got
hit.
Basically (I'm sure i've said it before) bikers have no protection at all apart from an occasional helmet, usually a badly fitting one.
IME they ride in legally iffy ways that mostly work to keep them safe.
As far as this stuff goes, assume that most cyclists are pretty situationally aware (else they'd be dead) and apply some judgement to what they
do.
Sure, there are utter pricks who ride through pedestrian areas at busy times, there's no need for it, there's also people who
shouldn't be on the road at all, whether it be a bike or a car. Personally, I'd rather take my chances against an idiot on a bike, than
one with 50hp and 3 feet of steel to protect them.
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Ivan
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 05:11 PM |
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Slightly off topic - Confession time - sitting at red traffic light in my Cobra - no one else around except cyclist coming up on my left, as he gets
to mid car light turns green, I put welly in, tyres scream, bit of smoke (actually quiet a lot ) and cyclist swerves left, must have given him one
hell of a fright  check mirror he seems ok except for stiff finger in the air - still feel guilty - promise I won't do it again when
there's a cyclist near me but no bets when I am at light with no other traffic around.
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 05:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Staple balls
However, IME, lights are one of the most dangerous places for a cyclist, you tend to not get noticed unless you park your arse in the middle of the
road, then people generally try to get past you as soon as they can. So your safest choices are jump the lights, and cross in various illegal
manners.
exactly, you seem the only one who seems to understand my reasoning.
can't see what problem drivers have with RLJ other than they cannot do it (actually they do but that isd another thread) - what really gets
their goat is that cyclists are able to mkae better progress than them, especailly in stationary traffic.
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Brommers
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 05:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mad_dogpompey
be a bit of a bad thing for those of you who live in places like cambridge london and oxford!!!!!
It would be if it was true. Which it isn't.
It would be nice if people would check their facts before starting such scare-mongering. And no, the Daily Mail/Express/Star/Sun/Mirror don't
count as reliable sources of information...
[Edited on 14/11/09 by Brommers]
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Steve G
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 06:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
exactly, you seem the only one who seems to understand my reasoning.
Personally i'm glad the laws of the land over-ride your reasoning!!!
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 07:06 PM |
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Would these guys be also excempt from claims!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLzGj10fg2g&feature=player_embedded
3:15 is a classic
[Edited on 14/11/09 by Johneturbo]
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Staple balls
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 07:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
exactly, you seem the only one who seems to understand my reasoning.
Personally i'm glad the laws of the land over-ride your reasoning!!!
I've tried cycling by the laws of the land, it'd work fine if it wasn't for every other t**t on the road.
"Accidents" I've had when cycling:
1) Crossroads with lights on all sides, waited for green, started heading forwards. Woman in BMW, went straight over lights and into me.
sky-ground-sky-ground. windscreen, roof. Fuckloads of pain, £1200 of bike trashed. "Sorry, I wasn't paying attention"
2) Traffic lights with turn off to the side, stay on left side of road, wait for lights, ride away safely 2 cars pass, white van clips my handlebars,
dumps me into kerb/wall, minor damage to bike, walk to A+E to get knees patched up. (bloke didn't even stop)
3) Bog standard traffic calming lights on a main road, know better than to stick to the left as the road's poorly maintained, so park my arse
in the middle of the road ahead of the traffic (where I have every right to be) tosser tries to nudge me forwards when the lights change, then swerves
past as close as he can, left me with a choice of moving car or parked car. I took the parked car and the broken fingers.
So yeah, I gave up on the law of the land and happily pay the occasional £30 fine here and there in exchange for my survival.
Personally, I see this as no different to the "spirited" driving that a great deal of people here partake in. It's a considered
risk by someone who knows their vehicle and their limits.
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roadrunner
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| posted on 14/11/09 at 08:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Staple balls
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
exactly, you seem the only one who seems to understand my reasoning.
Personally i'm glad the laws of the land over-ride your reasoning!!!
I've tried cycling by the laws of the land, it'd work fine if it wasn't for every other t**t on the road.
"Accidents" I've had when cycling:
1) Crossroads with lights on all sides, waited for green, started heading forwards. Woman in BMW, went straight over lights and into me.
sky-ground-sky-ground. windscreen, roof. Fuckloads of pain, £1200 of bike trashed. "Sorry, I wasn't paying attention"
2) Traffic lights with turn off to the side, stay on left side of road, wait for lights, ride away safely 2 cars pass, white van clips my handlebars,
dumps me into kerb/wall, minor damage to bike, walk to A+E to get knees patched up. (bloke didn't even stop)
3) Bog standard traffic calming lights on a main road, know better than to stick to the left as the road's poorly maintained, so park my arse
in the middle of the road ahead of the traffic (where I have every right to be) tosser tries to nudge me forwards when the lights change, then swerves
past as close as he can, left me with a choice of moving car or parked car. I took the parked car and the broken fingers.
So yeah, I gave up on the law of the land and happily pay the occasional £30 fine here and there in exchange for my survival.
Personally, I see this as no different to the "spirited" driving that a great deal of people here partake in. It's a considered
risk by someone who knows their vehicle and their limits.
Same here mate. I am a serious petrol head and i am also super fit, running and cycling.
Before this year i spent three years cycling to work, in that time i had two major accidents , neither where my fault, also i would have at least two
or three near misses every week by W****R drivers who gave me no respect what so ever and if i caught them they got what for every time. But i rode my
bike in the correct manor obeying every traffic light and crossing and where did it get me, so if you dont mind, i suggest if drivers have a problem
with my styles they can just go and F**K THEMSELVES, i could'nt give a poo what they think because at the end of the day i look after number
one and they are the pussys rapt up in tin tops, they do not feel the pain when they F**K up.
In life it takes all sorts.
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40inches
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| posted on 15/11/09 at 12:20 PM |
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So, if I've got this right, the pro cyclist camp are saying that the rules of the road should not apply to them??? i:e they ignore red lights,
cross over, get hit by a car legally crossing on green and then sue the car driver
I cycle a lot, but for "pleasure", because I'm an old git and need the exercise and walking bores the tits off me, so I tend to
agree with a lot of the statements made regarding safety, I try to use cycle tracks wherever possible or if the pavement is wide enough use them.
A lot of car drivers seem to think that they have exclusive rights to the use of the roads, pretty much in the same way that fishermen seem to think
that they own canal tow paths (don't get me started on that) and a lot of cyclists think that they are immortal.
It's really down to lack of consideration to other people, on both sides, and life in general, don't get me started on that topic either!
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Steve G
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| posted on 15/11/09 at 12:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
So, if I've got this right, the pro cyclist camp are saying that the rules of the road should not apply to them??? i:e they ignore red lights,
cross over, get hit by a car legally crossing on green and then sue the car driver
You got it in one by my understanding too. I'd be interested in their views on how they'd feel if they went through a green light in their
car and took out a cyclist who thought he was immortal / too important to obey the red light. Would they mind coughing up the insurance excess / 5
years worth of increased insurance premiums - plus the feelings they'd have for life if the cyclist was killed??
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Marcus
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| posted on 15/11/09 at 12:37 PM |
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I cycle to work every day (have done for 3 years now) and had no accidents (yet!). I wear a helmet and am lit up like a christmas tree when it's
dark. BUT I do occasionally run a red light. I make a point of obeying those at junctions or roundabouts, but pedestrian crossings I tend to ignore as
long as there are no pedestrians on them! It gives me a headstart to the next junction. I clip into my pedals and find it very simple to clip out at
junctions, so leaning on cars is a definite nono (if someone leant on my car they would get a proper earful!!)
In essence you should cycle as you would drive (apart from the pedestrian crossing thing) being courteous to other road users, and treating every
other road user as if they were morons, expecting the unexpected!
BTW there are cycle paths pretty much all the way to work and I don't use them. They are ill thought out and having to stop at every side road
really annoys me! There are signs saying cyclists dismount at the 2 roundabouts I use too....waste of time IMO, as long as you are sensible and
don't lane chop it's not usually an issue.
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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Staple balls
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| posted on 15/11/09 at 01:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
... and took out a cyclist who thought he was immortal / too important to obey the red light. Would they mind coughing up the insurance excess / 5
years worth of increased insurance premiums - plus the feelings they'd have for life if the cyclist was killed??
You're assuming that cyclists aren't actually aware of their surroundings, are idiots, or actually want to die, This isn't the case
(mostly).
Sure, we jump lights where it's safer to do so, but just as often you're better off waiting at the lights, so we do.
However, as I pointed out above, safety wise, obeying the laws of the road doesn't mean a thing, there's still thousands of idiots out
there who'll try to kill you nomatter what laws you obey.
It's for those people's mental health (as you pointed out) that cyclists jump lights, saving poor innocent drivers the trauma of murdering
someone because they were too busy playing with the radio.
[Edited on 15/11/09 by Staple balls]
[Edited on 15/11/09 by Staple balls]
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Steve G
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| posted on 15/11/09 at 01:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Staple balls
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G
... and took out a cyclist who thought he was immortal / too important to obey the red light. Would they mind coughing up the insurance excess / 5
years worth of increased insurance premiums - plus the feelings they'd have for life if the cyclist was killed??
You're assuming that cyclists aren't actually aware of their surroundings, are idiots, or actually want to die, This isn't the case
(mostly).
I am a cyclist (ex Cat 2 road racer) and very aware of my surroundings when out so am not an anti-cycling activist who thinks roads belong to cars.
I'm also aware that people make mistakes / misjudgements (cyclists, pedestrians and drivers). The original post was about car drivers will
become automatically liable for all accidents and if its true then yet again its the car driver who will have to pay up regardless of who is at fault.
Yes accidents happen and that is what insurance is for - but to me if a cyclist ignores a light or for whatever reason causes an collision through
their own negligence then why should it be the car driver who has to pay a potentially large financial penalty?? If the car driver causes a crash
through provable negligence then they end up in court. The same should apply to cyclists in my eyes.
Edited to change "accident" to "collision" as accidents suggest no intention rather than causing something through
negligence.
[Edited on 15/11/09 by Steve G]
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