JoelP
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 10:02 AM |
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well done steve. car's awesome.
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kb58
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| posted on 4/9/04 at 05:24 PM |
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quote:
Actually California is probably not as big a problem as some other west coast states.
There are a couple of ways to get a car Registered in Ca, basically the first 500 specialty vehicles registered a year can be smog exempt, the only
other option is to meet the emissions requirements with ALL of the original emissions equipment supplied by the factory (or use a pre 74 block).
You might be better off with a US v8 if you want to sell in the US.
If you're referring to Senate Bill SB-100, I don't think they just rubber-stamped "smog exempt", but rather the car is then
smogged per what it appears to be. In the case of the LMP that's going to be a real problem since it doesnt' look like anthing
pre-existing. THAT probably means they'll then consider it a new car, hence needing full emissions for 2004...
[Edited on 4/9/04 by kb58]
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ERP
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| posted on 5/9/04 at 12:59 AM |
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Yes that's a possible reading....
There is an exception in the text for cars that don't look like other cars (I think they get registered as a 68).
My understanding is that the final decision is entirely upto the inspector you get assigned.....
After reading the bill several times and talking to a lot of people, it's still no clearer to me so for my project I've decided to go with
a pre 74 block just to be sure 
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andkilde
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| posted on 7/9/04 at 02:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
A small block US V8 would fit fine, if someone wanted to try it out!
I'd be glad to provide all the engineering help required for an installation.
Errm, how big is the space?
http://www.lambolounge.com/Chassis/Transmission/5000/5000.asp
These fellows are fitting BMW V12s (750il) into their great stonking beasts as the motors look the biz and go for short money (around $500 US) in
the scrapyards. They're modifying Audi 5000 transaxles, which appear to have some relation to Porsche boxes, as they seem to be quite sturdy and
reasonably priced.
All seems a bit silly to have a drivetrain that outweighs the chassis though 
Cheers, Ted
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tadltd
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| posted on 7/9/04 at 06:11 PM |
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Not sure if a V12 would fit - but I know the BMW V8 would fit. With the same transaxle, no doubt.
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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kb58
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| posted on 8/9/04 at 01:17 AM |
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A V8 or V12 seems out of character for the car (read: heavy.) Aren't there some high output V6s out there? A high winding 6-cylinder sounds
very nice indeed.
Of course if people want a V8 or V12, well, Marketing would say, "Do it."
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sgraber
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| posted on 8/9/04 at 03:19 AM |
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Sometimes I wonder if the people trying to shoehorn these big displacement engines into sub 700 Kilo cars have ANY idea what they are doing!?
Apologies if any of you are listening here, but most on here understand the value of lightness as a means to quickness, right? To me the Turner LMP is
the epitome of this concept. Shoving a heavy lump in the back seems really wrong.
Don't misunderstand me, I have nothing against obscene amounts of power, it's the weight that bothers me. A nice ZX12 with a turbo seems
appropriate tho!
Steve T, do you have an estimate on the amount of power your current chassis can handle?
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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ned
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| posted on 8/9/04 at 09:20 AM |
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the ford v6 duratec is quite a reasonable engine, i know of one running around 330-340bhp (not standard) but they put out 220bhp in stock trim. it is
quite a compact unit, and apart from injection system, which could be modified it is quite low. the pic below is running after market throttle bodies
btw..
same old pic:
 
junossv6
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Hugh Paterson
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| posted on 8/9/04 at 09:25 AM |
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Steve he has, and its a lot more than whats in it just now he has a cunning plan, but its a secret and he would kill me if I told u lets just call
it Plan C, we have worn out A and B, in fact A is just about to meet its maker with a sthil saw.
Shug.
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Hugh Paterson
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| posted on 8/9/04 at 09:27 AM |
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Aw christ Ned I wish u would stop posting that type of pic, I look sad dribbling out the edge of my mouth at this time of the morning
Shug.
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tadltd
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| posted on 8/9/04 at 05:11 PM |
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The BMW V8 is actually quite a small and lightweight engine (140kg), being all aluminium. At 280bhp standard, it's tuning potential is massive.
And of course the latest M5 engine would also fit...
A V8 would be the largest engine we'd install, and to retain the lightweight ethos it would have to be cast in aluminium - I think that rules
out a lot of the small block US V8's? A motorsport transaxle's not much heavier - if at all - than the BMW diff and short prop' we
use, so the weight difference is really down to the engine. And if you're instantly gaining 100bhp and about 150lb/ft of torque over a ZX12,
then it's going to offset the extra 50kg quite considerably!
The Audi V6's that we've been looking at (and others) are also relatively light due to aluminium casting. However not all - like the Ford
- suit. We need to ensure that we have a 90deg V-angle to clear the engine cover, and the Ford engine has a 60deg angle, so is too tall. A 90deg V
will also ensure the CofG is lower, and both the Audi V6 and BMW V8 have this angle.
It just seems a bit daft to invest hundreds of thousands to develop a twin bike-engine V8 that's going to have less torque, will weigh almost
the same as a regular aluminium car V8, and have less tuning potential. All that work's already been done in the car engine, and if you want a
very high spec', high-revving, lightweight, V8 why not buy a 2nd hand Cosworth DFV for less or similar money to a bike-derived V8? (which I was
considering...!)
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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kb58
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| posted on 9/9/04 at 06:19 AM |
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What does a 3-rotor Wankel weigh????
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ProjectLMP
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| posted on 9/9/04 at 06:41 PM |
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Steve, I would far rather put a LS1 (Camaro) or LS6 (Corvette Z06) engine in than a BMW V8. They are basically the same engine and offer massive
tuning potential, are really cheap, you can get custom harnesses made easily. Also they are WAY smaller and lighter than the BMW V8. I am in the
process of fitting a lightly tuned LS6 (450hp) in a BMW M3. Its funny, the V8 is smaller than the original straight 6 and 40 lbs lighter. Below is a
picture of one in another guys car.
This company can supply custom ecu's and harnesses that remove all the emissions stuff if required.
www.speartech.com
Home of the Astronomicalcost Mid engined LMP project
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tadltd
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| posted on 9/9/04 at 08:48 PM |
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Wow - i thought those engines were bigger than the BMW V8. I know that BMW ran a different V8 in the USA to the one in Europe, perhaps that's
where the anomaly lies.
However, those are VERY interesting engines - I may just look a bit harder at them because I know they can be bought from GM Goodwrench as crate
engines. BMW's are much harder to source and (probably) more expensive.
BTW - are these OHV or OHC (looks like the former)? Also, how much do they weigh?
Thanks.
[Edited on 9/9/04 by tadltd]
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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Hugh Paterson
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| posted on 9/9/04 at 09:32 PM |
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Oh god u got him thinking again, bigger engine bay, transaxle, new wishbones, sort out the engine bay trangulation, possible new body at rear......
revise air intakes, you fool, now look what a mess you got me into..... who said this wuz fun. Looks cool though far better than some of the stuff hes
had lying on the shop floor
Shug.
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ProjectLMP
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| posted on 9/9/04 at 09:59 PM |
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Yes its a OHV engine, hence the reason its so compact. I don't know the exact size difference between the BMW V8 and the LS1 but I know the BMW
V8 is a REALLY tight fit in a e36 M3. As you can see from the pics, this isn't the case with the LS6/LS1. Don't quote me on weights, the
only thing I could find was:
BMW M60 B 40 4.0l V8 Dressed Engine Weight 468lbs
Chevrolet
LS1/6 5.7l Manual Dressed Engine Weight 497lbs
Without power steering and A/C you should be able to drop a good 20 to 30 lbs. Plus I am not sure if the weights include flywheel. If they do you can
easily loose another 35lbs from the stock unit.
When I get the engine from the engine builder I will put it on my scales to get an accurate weight. The C/G on the lS1 is quite a bit lower than the
BMW. I am using a drysump setup from ARE which allows for a really low placement of the engine. Plus the kit isn't too badly priced at under
$2000 USD. You can also get adapter plates to mount the engine to a Porsche G50, G52 or Audi Transaxle. My friend ran a G50 setup in an Ultima GTR and
it worked a treat. Some links that may be of interest to you:
www.ls1tech.com
www.kennedyeng.com
www.drysump.com/pan1d.htm
Home of the Astronomicalcost Mid engined LMP project
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ProjectLMP
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| posted on 9/9/04 at 10:15 PM |
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Just for comparision here is a picture of a BMW V8 in the same car
http://speed.supercars.net/IMG?viewPic=y&source=car&id=224&i=0&p=1995_bmw_alpina_b8_48-3.jpg&y=1995&m=Alpina&o=B8%204.6
Home of the Astronomicalcost Mid engined LMP project
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kb58
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| posted on 10/9/04 at 04:10 PM |
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It just seems out of character for the car to have such a heavy drivetrain. Why not turbo the bike engine?
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malcolmstoddart
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| posted on 10/9/04 at 06:23 PM |
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engine weights - can't quantify what this guy says... but have a look at http://forum.bmwcarmagazine.com/topic2.asp?TOPIC_ID=10493
regards
Malcolm
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tadltd
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| posted on 10/9/04 at 10:57 PM |
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We have thought about putting a turbo on the bike engine, haven't we, Shug!
Whether we take it any further is a different matter, because that in itself would cost a small fortune.
Besides, I have an alterior motive for installing a V engine. If all goes to plan, you guys in the USA and Canada will probably hear about that
project first.
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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kb58
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| posted on 11/9/04 at 01:06 AM |
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If you go down the V8 route, what will differentiate your product from all the other mid-engine, V8 cars? Weight and handling are wonderful
advertising points... I guess if your lap time goes down that's all that matters. Actually that's not true.... if sales increase
that's all that matters...
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MrFluffy
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| posted on 11/9/04 at 01:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tadltd
We have thought about putting a turbo on the bike engine, haven't we, Shug!
Whether we take it any further is a different matter, because that in itself would cost a small fortune.
Besides, I have an alterior motive for installing a V engine. If all goes to plan, you guys in the USA and Canada will probably hear about that
project first.
Could always use a factory turbo
(owner of two factory kawasaki turbo's )
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JoelP
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| posted on 11/9/04 at 08:43 PM |
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full whack busa turbo is only 7k at holeshot racing. i believe the zx12 doesnt (according to their figures) have as much potential as the busa, but
maybe thats cos they havent tried hard enough!
they do busas up to 450bhp ISTR.
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Peteff
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| posted on 11/9/04 at 10:39 PM |
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Obscure fact.
I read somewhere that the ZZR1100 was originally designed to run a turbo. Performance Bikes tested one and got just over 200mph out of it with an
American kit fitted.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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tadltd
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| posted on 11/9/04 at 11:33 PM |
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Right, Shug. Spark up the welder. You've got a turbo manifold to build!
Lucky we have 3 spare turbo's to play with, eh?!
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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