ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 24/6/03 at 11:43 AM |
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The second part of your Avatar says it all OX 
To be honest, your arguments have been all over the place all along with things such as "thats a mighty big jump in main jet size m8 and
probable the reason for you needing to use such big jets is that with your air filter its getting so much air from all directions it cant cope so it
needs the bigger jets to run the damn thing lol " which kinda backs up my argument all along does it not? With stuff like this, is it any
wonder that people like myself are questioning your wisdom?
I think its time to put up or shut up OX, you've yet to show any proof of your claims (either showing the pro's of an airbox or your bike
tuning credentials), and there is a fair wave of evidence on the other side of the fence to say that foam filters work very well thank-you very much.
Like I said before, Im not saying the perfect airbox wouldnt show a very slight improvement (in mid range if anywhere), but what you dont seem to be
able to grasp is that STANDARD AIRBOXES ARE RESTRICTIVE, and Im sure we can all agree that more air + more fuel = more power, so if everyone gets more
air into their engine using a foam filter rather than a STANDARD airbox (which is proved by the need for bigger jets) then thats pretty damning proof
I would say.
Chris
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kingr
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| posted on 24/6/03 at 12:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by OX
iv been working with bikes for 14 years on and off the race track and am telling you they run better with some type of airbox
OK, fine, they work on bikes, but the guys here have between them an enormous ammount of experience of putting bike engines into cars, and their
experience says airboxes don't help even if you can get them under the bonnet. If you want to mess around with airboxes then fine, but
don't expect anyone else to follow you when you show no evidence to back up your theories, and then start flaming well respected members of this
forum.
Kingr
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Rorty
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 02:32 AM |
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The label in my hat says MEDIUM. 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Macca
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 08:42 AM |
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The label in my hat says MEDIUM. ???
So Rorty, who will add the next reply then??
Col
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timf
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 10:07 AM |
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to quote from david vizzard
'to make extra power it is necessary to increase the airflow of the engine in question'
now unless the principles of the internal combustion engine have changed regarding bikes ? this means that more air = more fuel = bigger jets = more
power
so even vizzard would dissagree with ox and perhaps ox would like to tell him he got his theory on engine tuning all wrong.
As for the trend for personal attacks on people Don't . its not big and its not clever and it shows people for what they are.
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andyd
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 10:28 AM |
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Hmm... maybe we should write to the likes of K&N and Pipercross and tell them that their fancy graphs and sales claims are are load of old
horlicks. Performance air filters indeed! 
<inserts large cat into flock of fat pigeons> 
Andy
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OX
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 06:25 PM |
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lol,i am up for a laugh and to take the wee as much as any one ,my avatar was ment to be humoures but obvisouly it wasnt ,the opinion of the airbox
is not just my own but it is on this forum,i dont see the standard air box as being much of a restriction on a none tuned engine but the air filter
is thats why people use k&n filters and dyno kits,if your engine is tuned then yes the standard air box is restrictive and a bigger one is
needed,but then is the need for a bigger carbs.its the way the air flows that matters and sausage filters can affect this,,,,,,,,,may be i should
just take chris's wise words and shut up,didnt mean to wee any body off
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andyd
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 07:03 PM |
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Apology accepted Captain Needa.
Andy
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andyd
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 07:05 PM |
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Woohoo, 200 post
Sorry.
(201 now )
Andy
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accident
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| posted on 25/6/03 at 09:47 PM |
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as a total missing the point reply.
on my old carb blade engine the standard blade airbox can be fitted upside down in the car(only requres a small bonnet bulge)but to run it i had to go
back to standard jets.a big drop in power.
but was under 100 db @10k static
but it was so flat that im now back on foam sock filters and only go to noisy tracks 
cant get under 100 db @ 7k now
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 31/8/03 at 09:29 AM |
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After reading the above heated yet enjoyable debate, I asked a friend for his advice on the subject. He is a well repected race bike engine tuner,
and I trust what he says.
I was told that the airbox was a MUST.
If I could fit one, it would lead to all sorts of problems. The reasons for this were all fully explained, but were all a bit too technical.
The advice is a s follows:
Fit the standard airbox, dynojet and filter kit.
If it you can't, cut it down a little.
If you can't fit a box at all, fit a foam sausage thingy fit bigass jets and try your best to tune around the problems that your about to
encounter.
If you don't agree with the above, please do not shoot the messanger and slag me off. I am only trying to pass on the advice of a well
respected bike tuner.
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Rorty
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 03:14 AM |
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I too know some top bike tuners/factory race tuners, and they all swear by the air box.
It's quite simple to understand. The airbox in a bike, has its air fed from vents in the front of the fairing/frame. Few alternatives will
return the same values in a bike, due to the inaccessability of the air tracts of the carbs/injector bodies, beneath the "fuel tank".
Take the same engine, and stuff it in a much more spacious chassis, with no restrictive tank shell/fairing etc, and all of a sudden, there's a
whole lot more air available. Add a much better breathing filter arangement, re-jet (and you don't have to "try your best to tune around
the problems that your about to encounter." There are after market kits for this very purpose), and you have a healthier, more powerful
engine.
Do the maths, look up how much a standard bike filter flows, then compare with the flow of a sausage or bucket filter for the same model.
Yes, I am shooting the messenger, 'cause I'm fed up with unsubstianted "my best mate's" theories, when they're
totally inappropriate.
Quite a few of us here have experience with after market/home made filters and alternative jetting, and the results aren't a figment of our
imaginations, some of us have dyno results exalting the improvementsI have had quite a few bikes in my time too, and I always (bar one) retained the
basic airbox.
Building friendship across the world are you? Choose wiser words.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 1/9/03 at 09:47 AM |
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I don't think that there is the need to be so aggaresive.
This is suppossed to be a forum (debate and that sort of thing). And I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion.
My comments were my view, and I dont think I deserve a personal attack for stating them.
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