ned
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| posted on 12/1/07 at 05:26 PM |
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I have heard of 200bhp from an all steel 10k rpm race xflow before now. My mate use to run an f1300 xflow, they max'd out at 143/144bhp back in
the day. That was using a 1600 block and rods to get the rod angles down, crazy cam and other appropriate bits to suit. used to break camshafts and
crankshafts with some regularity iirc.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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quick n stuff
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| posted on 12/1/07 at 05:40 PM |
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i would take eney roling road teast witha pinch of salt when it comes to bhp at the fly wheel. they neely allways over estimate it.
there are 2 theroys on how to estimate transmition loses.
1) as the bhp gose up the transmition loses go up at the same rate.
2) because you are using the same gears and if there was no other change bar torque the losses will be about the same.
the truth is is somewhere in the middle. but you can get charts from the manufacturer (eg ford) on what losses you can exspect on a standard engine.
guse what thay do? yep youv got it thay just nock that off.
the only way to get a true reading is on a engine dino and the bhp will very from dino to dino (about 1%) so there is never a true reading 
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paulf
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| posted on 12/1/07 at 05:47 PM |
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I also have a 1600 crossflow with 1300 pistons and injection , it is good to drive and sounds nice but i am looking for more power. I priced up the
cost of a rebuild using standard rods and crank and cast pistons etc . found the basic parts come to over £600 to do it correctly, 150bhp would really
require a decent head , cast pistons and steel crank and rods to be reliable . I have decided to fit an 1800 zetec which although a problem to fit
under the bonnet will easily give me 150 hp when fitted with 2 litre cams and throttle bodies.
I also have a bike engine but decided against that due to needing reverse to get in and out of my drive.
My preference would be a 4age but it works out a lot more expensive with the bellhousing etc.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I have a 1660cc crossflow, which suits me down to the ground. It puts out around 100BHP with just minor upgrades and makes my car go plenty fast. I
also love the old-fashioned noise it makes.
However, if I wanted a lot more power I wouldn't waste my money on this engine, much as I love it. My personal preference would be for a Toyota
4-AGE or, if I was feeling flush, a Duratec. Both will be far more modern, give loads of power in standard form, and have plenty of scope for
improvement without massive investment.
cheers,
David
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quick n stuff
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| posted on 12/1/07 at 05:47 PM |
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anuther one is if thay built the engine thay allways tell you you have a bit mor than youv got to make them look good.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 12/1/07 at 05:49 PM |
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Just as a thought, 120 bhp per litre isn't just bec territory, as I have an 1338 cc A series with 150-155 bhp. Just a little over 112 a litre,
and with a rally cam in it. I daren't use the race scatter version!
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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NS Dev
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| posted on 12/1/07 at 08:16 PM |
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Not wanting to be negative, cos I'm not like that, but 150hp from a crossflow is a race engine, and a serious one at that.
Its certainly possible, but if you can do it for £1500 you will have a queue at your door.
A chap I used to know had a 160hp all steel crossflow in a rally car, and that had set him back more than £5000 even doing everything himself
(including a lot of the machining but not the grinding)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 12/1/07 at 10:09 PM |
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...and it's probably not a nice engine to drive - no tickover, and won't start to give power until way past 3000rpm. Not exactly a road
engine!
David
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ned
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| posted on 12/1/07 at 10:25 PM |
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1.The engine won't be nice for road use, loads of power at very high rpm and won't idle below 3000rpm i'd expect and would hunt like
mad.
2.The engine I know of made the figures I stated on a dyno.
3.My 2.1 vx makes 220bhp which is more than 100bhp per litre  and that's with a completely standard head
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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quick n stuff
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| posted on 13/1/07 at 10:56 AM |
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agreed £1500 will get you a pretend 150bhp
and you would still have to do a lot of the work your self
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ned
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| posted on 13/1/07 at 11:34 AM |
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for £1500 I recon you could do:
£150 1.8 zetec and some 2ltr 130 cams
£500 emerald ecu
£250 emerald map on rollers
£80 bike throttle bodies
£200 bogg bro's manifold
leaving £320 to find a s/h exhaust from some westfield owner upgrading to duratec (guessing this would be around the £200 mark)?
any change will help with sorting out hoses/plumbing, only other thing i can think of might be a polo rad if your current one can't cope.
existing gearbox and bellhousing should all mate up.
Anyone care to comment/correct the above? seems best value to me for cec 150bhp for £1500?
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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quick n stuff
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| posted on 13/1/07 at 02:10 PM |
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seem about right but we were on about the crossflow
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procomp
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| posted on 13/1/07 at 02:33 PM |
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Hi thier are plenty of genuine 200 bhp crosflows out there almost all of them from mass engines. But trust me the price is not locost but nearer the
15k mark but if you are running with a certain car in a certain class that dose not allow you to change engine then you just have to spend the cash to
do it .
Just shows how engines have moved on over the years as you can now have many engines with 200+ bhp and still use them as a daily driver . And at verry
little cost relativly.
cheers matt
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 13/1/07 at 04:39 PM |
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Agreed, there's plenty of 200bhp Xflows, the Class A 1700 engines in Classic Clubmans aren't far short of 200bhp despite having to run on
carbs with limited choke sizes, but as mentioned these engines are getting on for costing 5 figure sums.
Class D Clubmans run 1300 all steel engines and they don't cost a huge amount less to build yet are still putting out less than 150bhp.
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/1/07 at 05:55 PM |
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my old crossflow was a 1640 with twin 40s, the rolling road said it was 120bhp but when i put the zx9 engine in (technically 140 at the crank) it was
ridiculously faster. I can only assume the rolling readout was very optimistic. At a guess, more like 100.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 13/1/07 at 05:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
my old crossflow was a 1640 with twin 40s, the rolling road said it was 120bhp but when i put the zx9 engine in (technically 140 at the crank) it was
ridiculously faster. I can only assume the rolling readout was very optimistic. At a guess, more like 100.
Don't forget the car probably lost a good chunk of weight after the swap as well.
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JoelP
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| posted on 13/1/07 at 06:09 PM |
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yup, about 100 kilos, but it was MUCH faster! I mean, hardcore faster 
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CaptainJosh
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| posted on 14/1/07 at 07:00 PM |
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There is no substitute for cubic inch's-
If you have a bit of cash to spend you could get a '1.6 Zetec SE' from a ford Puma ( about £100 - £200 i think, thats from a scrappy )
and get a bellhousing to fit your gearbox from Shawspeed ( £231.48 with spigot bearing, thats to go onto a type 9 ).
There not that big at all and weigh only a little amount due to their aluminum build- in comparison to a crossflow.
Although I do believe your exhaust and inlet will switch side with that engine- but atleast you don't have to have a bulge which was your major
issue ( how embarrassing ).
With throttle bodies and a light cam upgrade you will see 150-160bhp no problem- you've got to love DOHC.
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