spuker1
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| posted on 31/7/13 at 12:53 PM |
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I could go for throttle bodies but my car was running a carb to begin with, so I think it was just much easier to put different carbs on it rather
then converting it into injection with throttle bodies. But I might as well do that if I go for my hydra swap (1.6 DOHC head on 1.3/1.5 block)...
As in for leaking, I was expecting that but didn't have a problem with it so far. Not even a dribble.
So are all of those carbs fitted with adjustable needles etc? How about jet availability?
BTW. I'll actually post photos of my car I think 
[Edited on 31/7/13 by spuker1]
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whitestu
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| posted on 31/7/13 at 02:44 PM |
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Bike carbs don't leak and set on fire - they are really reliable, dead simple and if it wasn't for emissions regulations would probably
still be widely used on new bikes.
You just need to set them up right.
Stu
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mcerd1
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| posted on 1/8/13 at 09:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Personally I hate bike carbs (they just leak and cause fires)
thats the first I've heard of that - as far as I know they only leak if you are using the wrong fuel pump !
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mcerd1
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| posted on 1/8/13 at 09:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spuker1
So are all of those carbs fitted with adjustable needles etc? How about jet availability?
not sure which ones have adjustable needles as standard, but its easy to find out which ones have dynojet kits available 
as above if your not sure or just don't want to mess about you could get them setup by the likes of bogg bros on there rollers
(they can even supply suitable carb's and make you a very nice alloy manifold too - but this isn't cheap)
as for the jets, nearly everyone just drills them out - even the likes of bogg bros do this
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spuker1
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| posted on 5/8/13 at 08:32 AM |
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Thanks guys!
I know about bogg bros but I really really really want to get it done on my own. I haven't got a problem with assessing if runs rich or lean in
which parts of throttle/revs because I've invested in the wideband sensor and AFR gauge....
Anyway,
Here's the latest from the bike carb 1.3 saga!
150 jets were still too small. It would still lean out on full throttle and heavier part throttle... I've decided to drill out one of my sets of
jets but I've only had 1,5mm 2mm and 2,5mm drill bits so I went for 2mm which in jet sizes is right up 200... I've also adjusted the air
screw. Had to have it almost set to all the way out, so had to wrap it in PTFE tape to stop it coming undone beacuse of vibrations. The idle and part
throttle is now fine if not a bit on the rich side, but on full throttle it will go like a stabbed rat for about 1,5 seconds and then AFR drops to
below 10:1 and bogs....
Here we go again....
I recon the correct size is about 175-180 for my engine if I manage to rise needles... If not then probably 185-190 and will have boggy and crappy
full throttle acceleration or a bit lean part throttle...
however,
those 1,5 seconds of right AFR before it floods itself are true 1,5 seconds of geniuine magic. The sound is biblical and I would never think that 1.3
N/A can accelerate like that!!!
So yea, bike carbs - ANNOYING.... but I think it's going to be worth it
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davidimurray
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| posted on 5/8/13 at 11:43 AM |
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Have you given the carb jets a good clean. I blew all mine through with an airline and thought that would be enough - it wasn't. I removed all
the jets, idle screws etc, sprayed a load of carb cleaner into a glass and left overnight. Also doused the carbs in carb cleaner at the same time and
directed it up through all the holes. The next day I found the jets sat in the glass with loads of black crud in there. Refitted and the difference
was amazing - idle screw had to go ino 2 turns further than before to get the same AFR!
Gallery 1 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.116893465324.130778.601005324
Gallery 2 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.245243755324.181913.601005324&l=a9831a9319
Gallery 3 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.440671625324.232627.601005324&l=3f0d42c523
Gallery 4 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.490098255324.297598.601005324&l=efb083b7df
Gallery 5 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150244028550325.366987.601005324&l=583fd5cd3a
Gallery 6 http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150550640070325.430417.601005324&type=3&l=fe779b358c
Duratec Engine Swap https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f " target="_blank"> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152527759580325.1073741828.601005324&type=1&l=40aae5e72f
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 5/8/13 at 06:36 PM |
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Hello! I'm owner of ford sierra 1986 3 door, 2,0 pinto. I bought this car from son of old guy whose died... Engine was dirty but in perfect
condition. I have troubles with old weber 2V-ISC carburetor. Only one choke is working properly. So I decide to put in bike carbs from kawasaki ZX9. I
wrote this on my local ford sierra forum and all of the people think that in CAN'T WORK, to short manifold, to wide chokes, dizzy troubles, sync
troubles, adjusting troubles, bla bla bla etc. I read a lot of UK forums about pinto and here it works in poland NOT  I don't understand
So i would like to ask You some questions about it because polish sierra forum sucks.
This is my car with 13x7 mangels rims (tires are too high now )
[Edited on 5/8/13 by sharpshooter]
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spuker1
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 08:47 AM |
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quote:
Have you given the carb jets a good clean. I blew all mine through with an airline and thought that would be enough - it wasn't. I
removed all the jets, idle screws etc, sprayed a load of carb cleaner into a glass and left overnight. Also doused the carbs in carb cleaner at the
same time and directed it up through all the holes. The next day I found the jets sat in the glass with loads of black crud in there. Refitted and the
difference was amazing - idle screw had to go ino 2 turns further than before to get the same AFR!
Yes I did in fact. Just after I bought my carbs I took them completely apart and cleaned everything that I knew how to take apart without breaking it.
They are as good as new to be fair.
quote:
Hello! I'm owner of ford sierra 1986 3 door, 2,0 pinto. I bought this car from son of old guy whose died... Engine was dirty but in
perfect condition. I have troubles with old weber 2V-ISC carburetor. Only one choke is working properly. So I decide to put in bike carbs from
kawasaki ZX9. I wrote this on my local ford sierra forum and all of the people think that in CAN'T WORK, to short manifold, to wide chokes,
dizzy troubles, sync troubles, adjusting troubles, bla bla bla etc. I read a lot of UK forums about pinto and here it works in poland NOT I
don't understand So i would like to ask You some questions about it because polish sierra forum sucks.
This is my car with 13x7 mangels rims (tires are too high now )
I can't think why it shouldn't work. You might need to do something about fuelling and ignition but other then that it's not a
rocket science to make it run... It's harder to make it run properly though... Is your distributor running off the camshaft? is your fuel
pump is a membrane one and is running also off the camshaft? what things on your engine need vacuum? I mean it might be as easy as it was in my case
when I just chopped the stock manifold up and attached carbs with silicon hose and jubilee clips... Also you might need to fabricate a bracket for
throttle and choke cables. Then there is jetting to deal with... what engine size was the motorbike you've got your carburettors from?
PS. Pozdrowienia od rodaka mieszkajacego w UK
[Edited on 6/8/13 by spuker1]
[Edited on 6/8/13 by spuker1]
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 09:24 AM |
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Hello, carbs are from 900cm3 kawasaki zx9 year 2000. I have pierburg low pressure fuel pump, with overflow to the tank. At the moment I am waiting for
delivery. Carbs cost me 130 PLN this is something about 26 pounds. Salesman said that there are in good condition. Now I need flange, I must buy or
make it by drilling. I have welder, 110 amps. I will use a curved tubes 45 degrees, to have proper angle of carbs. I have a lot of place in engine
bay, so I can make quite long manifold or short. I don't know which is better for road use. My ECU is Ford ESC-II with MAP sensor and Hall
sensor in dizzy. Also i have vacuum brake pump.
Pozdrownienia z tego upadlego kraju nad wisla ;D greetings from poland!
[Edited on 6/8/13 by sharpshooter]
[Edited on 6/8/13 by sharpshooter]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 09:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by spuker1
quote:
Hello! I'm owner of ford sierra 1986 3 door, 2,0 pinto. I bought this car from son of old guy whose died... Engine was dirty but in
perfect condition. I have troubles with old weber 2V-ISC carburetor. Only one choke is working properly. So I decide to put in bike carbs from
kawasaki ZX9. I wrote this on my local ford sierra forum and all of the people think that in CAN'T WORK, to short manifold, to wide chokes,
dizzy troubles, sync troubles, adjusting troubles, bla bla bla etc. I read a lot of UK forums about pinto and here it works in poland NOT I
don't understand So i would like to ask You some questions about it because polish sierra forum sucks.
I can't think why it shouldn't work. You might need to do something about fuelling and ignition but other then that it's not a
rocket science to make it run... It's harder to make it run properly though... Is your distributor running off the camshaft? is your fuel
pump is a membrane one and is running also off the camshaft? what things on your engine need vacuum? I mean it might be as easy as it was in my case
when I just chopped the stock manifold up and attached carbs with silicon hose and jubilee clips... Also you might need to fabricate a bracket for
throttle and choke cables. Then there is jetting to deal with... what engine size was the motorbike you've got your carburettors
from?
2.0 pinto with ZX9R carb's has been done hundreds of times
there are lots of old threads on this site with more details
here's what you will need:
1 - the carb's
2 - a custom manifold - fastdan on this site sells them or the laser cut plates to make your own
http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/
(this one is mine - its a bogg bros manifold fitted to ZX9R model 'E' carbs)
3 - a bike fuel pump (the ZX9R one is ideal) it'll need wired to the ignition with suitable relay
then just remove and blank off the mechanical pump on the engine
other low pressure pumps do not work as well as the bike one
4 - some kind of airbox or sausage air filter - most people make their own, but the bike airbox can be useful as a starting point - make sure any
airbox you get is form the same model/age of bike as the carb's
(ZX9R air boxes have a separate plate that the carb's mount to which is very useful)
5 - the distributor will need the vacuum advance removed (just like you would with twin webber carbs)
or you can bypass it and fit fully electronic modern ignition like megajolt
but on a pinto you must keep the bottom part of the dizzy in place as it drives the oil pump!
[Edited on 6/8/2013 by mcerd1]
[Edited on 6/8/2013 by mcerd1]
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 09:36 AM |
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Thanks for the answer! It sounds very optimistic! See my post above. Cheers
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mcerd1
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 10:15 AM |
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i'm sure a vacuum line for your brakes can be done easily
but the distributor won't like the 'pulses' of air you get from one cylinder of the engine
IMHO the best option is something like the megajolt setup - lots of info here: http://www.autosportlabs.net/Megajolt_Lite_Jr.
other 'spark only' ECU's are available, megajolt is one of the most popular
a programmable setup like megajolt will give you a little more power, better throttle response and better fuel economy than any distributor
for megajolt you'd need:
1 - megajolt ECU - the TPS version (throttle position sensor) - your bike carb's have a TPS built in already
often best to buy this direct form the US: http://www.autosportlabs.com/megajolte-p-41.html
2 - 36-1 trigger wheel to mount on the crank pulley
you can get them on ebay or www.trigger-wheels.com among other places
3 - ford EDIS4 unit - these are found in lots 90's fords - inc. escorts, fiesta's and automatic mondeo's - don't forget the
plug with a good length of wire - you can't get these new.
4 - ford VR sensor (crank sensor to work with the trigger wheel) these are found in even more 90's fords, you'll need the plug and a good
length of the shielded wire that's attached to it
5 - ford 4cyl coil pack - the early style ones out of the 90's fords will work best - get one with the plug and wires
6 - coil / HT leads - your best to get ones for a 1.3 or 1.6 ford fiesta from about 1993 - these have the old style plug ends and the newer style coil
ends
all the donor bits together (items 3, 4, 5 and 6) cost me £25 from my local scrapyard
then the distributor can them be cut down like this (keeping the bearings) to become just an oil pump drive:
some people even mount the new coil pack on top of it...
[Edited on 6/8/2013 by mcerd1]
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 10:25 AM |
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Megajolt is quite expensive. Something about two times more than my car ;D I'm thinking about "piggy back" ECUmaster DET2 or DET3
http://www.ecumaster.com/en/products/digital-ecu-tuner-3
This is my ECU
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mcerd1
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 11:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sharpshooter
Megajolt is quite expensive.about two times more than my car
if you source all the donor bits yourself its a bit cheaper than an aftermarket distributor
besides your car is worth a bit of money in parts in this country - its a good donor car for our kits
but if you know an even cheaper way to get the same result then go for it
I've not seen anyone use a piggy back ECU on a pinto or ESCII before, so if you get it working it would be good to see the details
you can keep your existing dizzy with the vacuum advance if you take a line from all 4 branches of the manifold and run them into a small chamber (to
balance / smooth out the pressure) then take a line from this to the dizzy - not sure how big the chamber needs to be but you can easily make one and
experiment with it...
this might not be the perfect setup - but its free
[Edited on 6/8/2013 by mcerd1]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 11:59 AM |
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oh and I forgot one other thing out need - you need 'Fluro Lined' hose to join the carb's to the manifold
other types of hose will get eaten by the petrol 
fastdan sells short lenghts on his ebay shop here: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/DANST-Engineering
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 01:58 PM |
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Thanks for the interesting ideas! I think that vacuum hose to map sensor should have venturi, thin like a needle. Then pressure should be smooth.
This solution is used in some lines from the turbo to sensitive gauge, when read jumps. So maybe with vacuum is the same. About hoses, in every big
agriculture shop is branch of "FAGUMIT" this is manufacturer of milion types of hoses. Prices are very low. This is a brochure
http://www.fagumit.com.pl/ofertaonline/24.pdf This is manufacturer website http://www.fagumit.com.pl/a-en/#/online
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mcerd1
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 03:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sharpshooter
I think that vacuum hose to map sensor should have venturi, thin like a needle. Then pressure should be smooth.
no need for anything fancy like that - connecting the vac line from each cylinder together works, you just need the chamber to be big enough fo
balance it out
(the ones I've seen working were a little smaller than a drinks can - so not that big really)
your just trying to mimic the way that the your current single carb and manifold evens out the pressure
also as a bonus having vacuum lines on each cylinder means you can use a simple manometer to balance the carbs when tuning them (you can make one from
clear plastic tube, a bit of wood and some water - very locost )
have you got a picture of your dizzy ?
just thinking you must have a weird hybrid setup at the moment if you've got an ESC-II on a pinto..... (ie. one we never got in this
country)
[Edited on 6/8/2013 by mcerd1]
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 03:54 PM |
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So I will try with chamber
First days after purchase:
ECU on right
Here is something about http://www.fordsierranet.com.ar/Fotos/Engine%20electrical%20systems.PDF
I need those things x4
Pipes for manifold, various angles 14 PLN this is ~ 2,8 pound each
[Edited on 6/8/13 by sharpshooter]
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 6/8/13 at 08:53 PM |
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The simplest way is, however, adjustable dizzy with vacuum steering
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mcerd1
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| posted on 7/8/13 at 09:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sharpshooter
The simplest way is, however, adjustable dizzy with vacuum steering
you would definitely need to connect all 4 cylinders vacuum together for that (as above) - they really don't like the rough vacuum signal that
you get from only 1 cylinder
this is why most aftermarket dizzy's have the vac. advance removed - however this will really hurt your fuel economy, as it is a step backwards
to a 2D ignition map
the best option for 4 individual carburetors is a TPS, thats why the bikes use them
but that means you need an ECU capable of using a TPS instead of a MAP sensor...
but sounds like the cheapest option for you will be to keep your existing ignition system, and connect the MAP sensor to all 4 cylinders - this should
work quite well and cost almost nothing
btw we would call it 'vacuum advance' (as it advances the timing) - might help you when searching through the old posts....
[Edited on 7/8/2013 by mcerd1]
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spuker1
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| posted on 9/8/13 at 07:55 PM |
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Hi it's me again and I came across another problem! Please, could you help me again if you can?
Everything is going well but got to a point where I've run out of knowledge or judgement. I went back to 150 jets and drove about and it's
perfect/a bit rich with the choke on (except I have to push the choke back in when on idle because otherwise it stalls) with the choke off, idle is
spot on and rest of revs is rather lean... also with or without a choke it has a dip in AFR around 3000-3500rpm when it leans out for split second and
goes back to normal.
I've found a way to temporarily raise the needles. I've taken the locking springs out and put spongy foam thingies under the needles so
they are raised as much as they can technically go up, the foam goes down only as much as it being pushed down by the locking, twist in plastic bit -
I might actually draw a picture for that for you to understand. Anyway the needles went up for about 1,5-2mm and.... AFR is spot on if not on a bit of
rich side (12:6-15:1) with that dip in AFR going completely lean around 3000-3500rpm and right back up to normal.
The thing is there's noticeable change in how it revs and pulls now. It's much slower and weaker then before with needles lower down and
choke on. Why is that? Is it because of added weight inside the slides? I don't understand that at all...
If anyone has got any clues what causes it to suddenly go lean at that short rev range and also why did it became so weak now when it seems like
it's running sort of fine finally, please let me know.
Thank you very much,
Tom
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redturner
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| posted on 10/8/13 at 06:50 PM |
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Just caught up on this thread. Are you sure the manifolds to head joints are intact and not leaking. I run a 2 litre Black Top in my single seater,
fitted with R1 carbs and fired up with Megajolt. Fortunately this carb accepts Weber main jets so messing about drilling. I use Weber 180 mains and
modified air correction jets with the needles lifted 1 notch. Weber jets are measured in mm. so a 180 jet is 1.8mm and would be the size of drill to
open up a smaller jet. Fortunately I had lots of jets in stock and simply stuck 4 x 180s in then to RR for final set up. I use a small solid state
fuel pump and have the regulator set at 3 and it has never been a problem. I use a Pipercross air filter with a back plate supplied by Danst
Engineering, who also supplied the manifold. My carbs are on original centres and haven't been respaced. Dan cuts the new back plate to the
correct size for the carbs. The RR man I used was also a Weber specialist so had hundreds of dgv type jets if they had been required and to save
buggering about with number drills.....
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spuker1
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| posted on 12/8/13 at 03:50 PM |
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I've managed to raise needles using specially shaped small washers.. The only difference from stock now (except the height of them) is that
the're not pushed down by a spring but have got about 1mm of free play. Don't know if it affects the performance at all. I've got
150 jets at the moment, needles raised about 3mm and air screws undone couple of twists. The strange dip in AFR is gone and car pulls nicely
throughout the entire rev range with good/acceptable AFR... I can definitely feel the improvement over the stock now, but it doesn't pull as
hard as it did with stock needle position and choke on. Could it be because the choke on one of four carbs i've got is actually broken and it
had extra power because it was going lean on one of the cylinders before? I mean I'm happy with how it runs now and I could probably leave it
like this, but if there's more to be squized out - I want it!
So yea - '150 jets, stock needle position, air screw out couple of turns and choke on because it's lean as hell without it' gives
more power/torque then '150 jets, needle 3mm up, air screw out couple of tunrs and choke off with good AFR all the time'
Could anyone explain?
Cheers,
Tom
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jacko
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| posted on 12/8/13 at 05:26 PM |
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Have you tried blocking the air correction holes this is to stop the carbs going week at higher revs some carbs like this and some don't
If you block them you may not need to use the chock
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sharpshooter
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| posted on 12/8/13 at 05:42 PM |
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I think that if all is right with choke on, you need bigger main jet...
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