madteg
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| posted on 14/12/08 at 11:00 PM |
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Brake fade
WHAT IS IT AND HOW TO STOP IT ?
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NigeEss
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| posted on 14/12/08 at 11:13 PM |
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Quite simply the brakes overheating and requiring more and more pressure to work
up to the point where they don't.
Pedal feels increasingly spongy and will eventually travel to the floor and you get very little braking.
To prevent it either drive slowly or fit higher spec brakes, such as vented/grooved discs and
high temp pads such as EBC or similar.
[Edited on 14/12/08 by NigeEss]
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.................Douglas Adams.
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nitram38
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 04:23 AM |
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It is not just caused by overheating the discs and pads, but this heat boiling the brake fluid in your pipes. There are those who go on about using
silicon fluid, but this has problems with boiling too.
The best thing to do is as Chris says, change your fluid.
If you regularly track your car, then think about changing your discs to cross drilled/slotted ones, but I dont think that brakes are an issue as
tyres are more likely to go off before your brakes if they are road tyres.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 07:25 AM |
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simple answer is to use your engine to slow down rather than the brakes all the time
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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nitram38
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 08:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
simple answer is to use your engine to slow down rather than the brakes all the time
Not the advise given these days......
In the days of drum brakes, this was taught, but today, brake pad changes are cheaper than clutch/drive train changes.
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MK9R
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 09:25 AM |
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Does the pedal go hard and brakes not work, or does it go soft and goes down to floor?
If the pedal goes hard, its the pads/discs overheating
If the pedal goes soft its the fluid boiling, although the fluid boiling can be cause by the pads/discs over heating.
Are the calipers not releasing properly? If the pads are constanlt dragging it will over heat the brakes befor eyou even use them. Check the
temperature of the wheels after a short drive withot using the brakes.
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 09:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
simple answer is to use your engine to slow down rather than the brakes all the time
Not the advise given these days......
In the days of drum brakes, this was taught, but today, brake pad changes are cheaper than clutch/drive train changes.
part of just driving properly tbh
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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AndyGT
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 10:25 AM |
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something that nobody has said is slightly sticking calipers if the car is not used regularly. Sticking pads would mean that the pads and discs are
forever in contact and the brake units would never get a chance to cool down with air flow. Which niecely leads me to the second solution of
air-ducting. I imagine not needed thou on a 7-esque car.
Brake fluid also attracts water which has a lower boiling point than brake fluid so I would suggst changing the oil too to at least DOT 5.
If all this is in the correct condition then look at other, and more expensive, solutions. i.e. bigger brakes, vented discs etc etc
HTH
Andy
[Edited on 15/12/08 by AndyGT]
[Edited on 15/12/08 by AndyGT]
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AndyGT
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 10:28 AM |
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sorry MK9R just realised I have repeated what you said 
nothing is impossible
everything is possible
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nitram38
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 10:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
simple answer is to use your engine to slow down rather than the brakes all the time
Not the advise given these days......
In the days of drum brakes, this was taught, but today, brake pad changes are cheaper than clutch/drive train changes.
part of just driving properly tbh
Have you done any lessons lately?
They teach you to drop the car out of gear instead of going through the box to slow down when coming to a stop and even get you to start in 2nd if
the situation requires it, along with 5th to 2nd etc.
Part of the advanced driving test.....but perhaps they are wrong or is it you took your test a long time ago?
I took an advanced driving course and that is what they teach now.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 11:13 AM |
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One thing I have noticed about advanced drivers is their over high opinion of themselves, that their style is the only way to drive correctly and that
everyone else is just simply wrong 
[Edited on 15/12/08 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 11:19 AM |
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As people have said, get the fluid changed. But use fresh stuff, from a sealed bottle - brake fluid absorbs water from the air if the bottle is left
open/is old.
Have you checked you don't have air in the lines and they just need bleeding properly?
As far as engine braking, I still use engine braking to a degree - so can see both points of view. I have a friend who uses the clutch each and every
time he wants to brake, leads to a very ugly braking experience IMO - feels very twitchy.
Also I come from riding motorcycles, so learned to use engine braking, it is used by all the top riders and so shouldn;t be considered as a poor form
of reduction in speed - as long as it isnt overused. I know whippy rides, so maybe that is where he is coming from.
No matter what an advanced driving course teaches, I'll be using appropriate engine braking, in addition to a healthy stomp of brake as soon as
I get out on the track.
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nitram38
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
One thing I have noticed about advanced drivers is their over high opinion of themselves, that their style is the only way to drive correctly that
everyone else is just simply wrong
I first of all I am not an advanced driver, I just took a course as the company I worked for required it for insurance and I never said it was the
only way to drive.
I took my test when you had to go through the gears
YOU said "part of just driving properly tbh " which excluded all other methods, not me.
I just stated what is expected today and the reason why.
Things change and sometimes they make sense, seeing how cars with all round drum brakes are rarely made today.
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paul the 6th
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 11:31 AM |
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I've got ebc H/H Sinterred pads on my sv650 and ebc green stuff pads on my mondeo (simply because the standard dayo brakes are pap) and
they're brilliant. Easy to fit and you can feel a bit of a marked improvement....
Then there's all stuff mentioned above, cross drilled and grooved discs, uprated fluid etc....
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 11:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
One thing I have noticed about advanced drivers is their over high opinion of themselves, that their style is the only way to drive correctly that
everyone else is just simply wrong
I first of all I am not an advanced driver, I just took a course as the company I worked for required it for insurance and I never said it was the
only way to drive.
I took my test when you had to go through the gears
YOU said "part of just driving properly tbh " which excluded all other methods, not me.
I just stated what is expected today and the reason why.
Things change and sometimes they make sense, seeing how cars with all round drum brakes are rarely made today.
As he was asking about how to cure brake fade then it is safe to assume that he must be over using them, the correct way to overcome that (unless he
does not alter the brakes) would be to use the engine also to slow down and in that aspect it is the proper way to drive. I have had very severe brake
fade from several modern cars including those fitted with ventilated disks especially when going down hills, it’s not just limited to drum brake cars.
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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Richard Quinn
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 12:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
One thing I have noticed about advanced drivers is their over high opinion of themselves, that their style is the only way to drive correctly that
everyone else is just simply wrong
I first of all I am not an advanced driver, I just took a course as the company I worked for required it for insurance and I never said it was the
only way to drive.
I took my test when you had to go through the gears
YOU said "part of just driving properly tbh " which excluded all other methods, not me.
I just stated what is expected today and the reason why.
Things change and sometimes they make sense, seeing how cars with all round drum brakes are rarely made today.
As he was asking about how to cure brake fade then it is safe to assume that he must be over using them, the correct way to overcome that (unless he
does not alter the brakes) would be to use the engine also to slow down and in that aspect it is the proper way to drive. I have had very severe brake
fade from several modern cars including those fitted with ventilated disks especially when going down hills, it’s not just limited to drum brake cars.
Even when using engine braking as you suggest or do you not practise what you preach? 
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 12:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
One thing I have noticed about advanced drivers is their over high opinion of themselves, that their style is the only way to drive correctly that
everyone else is just simply wrong
I first of all I am not an advanced driver, I just took a course as the company I worked for required it for insurance and I never said it was the
only way to drive.
I took my test when you had to go through the gears
YOU said "part of just driving properly tbh " which excluded all other methods, not me.
I just stated what is expected today and the reason why.
Things change and sometimes they make sense, seeing how cars with all round drum brakes are rarely made today.
As he was asking about how to cure brake fade then it is safe to assume that he must be over using them, the correct way to overcome that (unless he
does not alter the brakes) would be to use the engine also to slow down and in that aspect it is the proper way to drive. I have had very severe brake
fade from several modern cars including those fitted with ventilated disks especially when going down hills, it’s not just limited to drum brake cars.
Even when using engine braking as you suggest or do you not practise what you preach?
Yip even when I was using the engine too, they are just production cars after all
Funnily enough even though I love it my bluebird, being an auto suffers very badly from brake fade as it freewheels the engine when slowing down,
really it’s just about as bad as it gets on the brakes and I need to take care on hills The Volvo was also quite bad (car to heavy for the crappy
brakes) and my neighbors one shattered the rear disks from him pushing it too far and overheating them
[Edited on 15/12/08 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 12:51 PM |
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Laying aside the driver draging the brakes on --- Most likely root cause of brake fade on a Sevenish car is either the calipers sticking
slightly or that old favourite the piston in the master cylinder not returning fully.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 04:26 PM |
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^ certainly a possibility
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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gixermark
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| posted on 15/12/08 at 05:09 PM |
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I'm amazed at anyone advising to use engine braking to help slow down a seven - especially from a BEC driver... I definately wouldn;t be buying
a car of anyone that promoted using engine braking in a BEC...
braking system on a seven doesn;t have to be cutting edge to hold up well to track abuse, well maintained M16 calipers up front and drums at the rear
with decent pads/shoes and fresh brake fluid shoudl be more than up to the job - in my opinion.....
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lococost
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| posted on 16/12/08 at 11:46 AM |
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But this is Mr whippy! So, using the old anchor to stop a car might be an effective solution.
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gixermark
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| posted on 16/12/08 at 01:21 PM |
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ahh.... get out of the bec section then anchor boys
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