mstepien
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 02:28 PM |
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Mending hole in the sump
It looks like during the grinding of the sump (cast alu of the 2l Zetec 3rd gen - black top) we have managed to get through in one spot. The hole is
tiny but it still need to be mended. Is there any technique to get it fixed (apart from buying a new sump). And it won't be possible to tap the
hole and block it with a screw as there isn't enough space to get the hole plugged.
Will be really grateful for any help.
Kind regards,
Michal
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carpmart
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 02:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mstepien
It looks like during the grinding of the sump (cast alu of the 2l Zetec 3rd gen - black top) we have managed to get through in one spot. The hole is
tiny but it still need to be mended. Is there any technique to get it fixed (apart from buying a new sump). And it won't be possible to tap the
hole and block it with a screw as there isn't enough space to get the hole plugged.
Will be really grateful for any help.
Kind regards,
Michal
Difficult to advise without a picture which would help no end, can you post one on here?
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack 
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 02:42 PM |
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TIG or MIG weld it? it needs to be thoroughly cleaned as aluminium is a bit porous so oil will seep in - dunno if that'll work, I've not
tried it.
if you cannot do it yourself, then pay someone but check price of s/h sump first.
failing that, glue on a patch..... but will you ever stop worrying about the patch falling off - and how much £££ to fix engine if it does?
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Danozeman
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 02:44 PM |
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Chemical metal?
Failing that tig weld.
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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Peteff
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 02:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Danozeman
Chemical metal?
Failing that tig weld.
I'd go with the chemical metal as well. Do it from both sides.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 02:51 PM |
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I would dril the hole through and push a turned top hat button in from the inside, seal with some P55, job done. you could even thread the end of the
button and screw on a securing nut.
I pre empt everyone saying you can't use sealants in the presence of oil or hydrocarbons, you can, ive done it many times, and it works very
well
or tig weld for best repair
[Edited on 14/1/09 by liam.mccaffrey]
[Edited on 14/1/09 by liam.mccaffrey]
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BenB
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 02:53 PM |
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I would use techoweld or something similar like that. I've used it in the past and its good for this kind of job.
Have a shoofy at the videos on
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/
Good stuff
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BenB
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 02:53 PM |
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Oops, sorry US site.
Try
http://www.aluminiumrepair.co.uk/hts2000.html
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 03:07 PM |
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Chemical metal --- long ago long ago I fixed a big hole in the alloy case of BW35 from an 1800 Landcarb using Belzona chemicsal metal 100%
success was still doing the job 60,00 miles later.
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JohnN
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 03:11 PM |
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Another vote for an aluminium solder type solution (technoweld? or similar)
Low temperature, flow it over the local area, couldn't be simpler - unless the sump is porous and contaminated with oil.....
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 03:39 PM |
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Don't bother with any of that chemical metal etc.
I have worked on so many sumps that I can tell you that the only way to do it is to have it tig welded.
All of the other methods will work.....for a while, but hot oil and vibration will eventually win.
Do you want to lose your engine?
Take the sump off and get it done properly.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 03:40 PM |
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However you repair it I'd paint the inside with
this
JB Weld and that paint may be a reasonable solution......
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afj
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 04:07 PM |
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NEW SUMP FROM SCRAPPY
eerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 04:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnN
Another vote for an aluminium solder type solution (technoweld? or similar)
Low temperature, flow it over the local area, couldn't be simpler - unless the sump is porous and contaminated with oil.....
worth a go but for something as big as a sump = BIG HEAT SINK - you are gonna need one hell of a blow torch!!!
beware that local heat will distort the sump, and when it cools, the blob of technoweld may rip out as the sump reverts to its original shape (I had
this on a LR tailgate)
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 04:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
However you repair it I'd paint the inside with this.
damn, I still followed the linky yet I knew it was glyptol. 
Goo to RPI webstie where they show the interior of an V8 engine painted with this or possibly similar stuff - same colour anyway - which subsequently
failed due to oil blockage.
I woldn't use it, but hey, it;s not my engine!
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 04:39 PM |
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If you're not gonna tig weld it I still think mine is the safest
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BenB
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 04:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
worth a go but for something as big as a sump = BIG HEAT SINK - you are gonna need one hell of a blow torch!!!
Nah. Little torch and 45 minutes in the domestic oven @ full wack.
Domestic oven's will get to 250degC+ easily. That an some blow-torching does the trick nicely Then the heat isn't so localised, a
slower cool-down, less risk of cracking etc etc etc.....
I've done experiments with technoweld and it's serisously strong sticky stuff. >4x stronger than an epoxy bond (and JB weld would no
doubt do the job just fine!!!)....
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BenB
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 04:49 PM |
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then again, size of oven might be a problem with boat anchor sumps....
Oh the advantage of BEC shines forth yet again 
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jacko
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 05:20 PM |
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Do it right and get it welded Mig or Tig
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Trev D
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 05:25 PM |
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Tig it.
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BenB
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| posted on 14/1/09 at 05:42 PM |
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Technoweld. You know it makes sense.
I did a little experiment to see how strong this stuff is. I cut a 40mm long and 3mm wide strip of 3mm thick aliminium. I put it on a 3mm thick piece
of ali sheet so that 20mm was on the sheet and 20mm was over the edge. I technowelded the strip in place (total fillet joint of 43mm).
I then inverted the sheet of metal so the ali stick was underneath the sheet, held in place by the technoweld. I then noosed some string around the
stick where it met the sheet and started hanging weights on the other end of the string.
I got to 20kg before the 3mm sheet of ali started bending. There was still no sign of the technoweld breaking. I got rather scared at this point on
the basis that when 20kg suddenly fell off it was likely to break my kitchen floorboards ( ) and the sudden pinging would likely make my workbench
self-destruct. A similar araldite experiment BTW reached 13kg IIRC before the bond broke....
Considering the fact that a sump contains very little pressure (may even run at slight vacuum with a dry sump) and the only pressure the weld will be
under will be 20cm or so of oil I really wouldn't worry!!!! In my book TIG is major overkill. JB weld would be enough if you notched the hole
slightly on both sides. If you end up with a >< shape bit of JB through the hole how the hell is it going to fall out unless the middle piece
fractures... Some technoweld would be even better....
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mstepien
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| posted on 19/1/09 at 02:19 PM |
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Thanks for all the good advice, guys. Seeing that I have to take off the sump anyway and the work will cost me the same as buing a "new"
used sump at the breakers. Plus the hassle of finding somebody here in Belgium who will get the work done. I just need to pay more attention not to
pierce the second sump.
Thanks again and kind regards to all.
Michal
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02GF74
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| posted on 21/1/09 at 10:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Nah. Little torch and 45 minutes in the domestic oven @ full wack.
Domestic oven's will get to 250degC+ easily. That an some blow-torching does the trick nicely Then the heat isn't so localised, a
slower cool-down, less risk of cracking etc etc etc.....
You have an oven? That is luxury. There is fourteen of us living in milk carton with nothing more than our own breath to warm our bacon butties.
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