dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 07:52 PM |
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charge coolers
has anyone used a charge cooler?
i found
THIS on the bay. it looks quite good, i
only intend on running 225hp tops.
im trying to reduce the length of pipework between turbo and manifold... its quite far at moment.
will 
edit: sorry about the BIG pics 
[Edited on 3/3/09 by dinosaurjuice]
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tegwin
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:19 PM |
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Could you mount a small intercooler either side of the numberplate on those flatish vertical sections and fit a nice trendy electric fan to each...
would look pretty cool...
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
Could you mount a small intercooler either side of the numberplate on those flatish vertical sections and fit a nice trendy electric fan to each...
would look pretty cool...
no room for pipework its fairy full under that cover...
would look  though..
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imp paul
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:29 PM |
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i have 1 fitted to my imp its made very well also a Bosch pump and a small rad good bit of kit
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:32 PM |
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what rad did you use?
i was thinking a small motorbike rad in front of engine rad would be about right.
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imp paul
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:35 PM |
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its a small rad from a audi tt 3.0 but a bike rad would be fine
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:38 PM |
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awesome cheers
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imp paul
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:40 PM |
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get the pump from a seat leon 20v turbo its a proper bit of kit and its bosch fitted to the back of the rad on rubber straps
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Antnicuk
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:52 PM |
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i have one of those for a 3 rotor rx7 project and its heavy and probably a little overkill for 220 ish BHP. By the time you fill it and a rad with
water, add a pump, wiring and a rad and you will have a noticeable increase in weight.
What turbo and engine are you running? the pipe work doesnt look too bad, I have seen much worse.
The I/C you have at the moment looks quite light weight.
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
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imp paul
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 08:59 PM |
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the pump is very small the rad is alloy and also small its up 2 you im happy with mine
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 09:17 PM |
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2.0 turbo diesel - weight isnt really an issue!
the intercooler just looks untidy and without it the pipework would be almost half the length.
its a garrett VGT turbo.. not sure what size/model but been told it runs out of puff beyond 200hp (ish).
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Antnicuk
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 09:36 PM |
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if you are not worried about weight and just want to get rid of the I/C then a c/c is a good way to go. Where would you be putting the rad?
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
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BenB
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 10:09 PM |
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I'm going for air-air but WTF do OEM peeps insist on very wide and low ICs (like the one shown) IE a few very long pipes. Talk about inducing a
restriction to the inlet..
Why don't they just make narrow but tall ICs and mount them sideways!! Aaaaaah!!!!
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 10:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hicost
I played with a charge cooler for a couple of years, the real problem is getting the temp below "ambient temp" thats why air to air will
always be better. Water just does not respond quick enough.
Think about it ambient is going to be higher than you want and this is your starting point!!
I would rethink your air cooler and invest in a better one or a different one.
James
cooling below ambient is by definition impossible surely?
You cool fromthe compressed temperature down to as close to ambient as you can,but you can never reach it. (well, unless you spray your IC with CO2 or
fill your CC with ice)
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matnrach
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 10:29 PM |
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I use a charge cooler to reduce pipe runs as the engine is mid mounted.
The Pace cooler works very well. The rad is mounted in a side pod and charge temps so far have been around 10 degrees above ambient in brisk driving
which I think is not too bad.
Maybe worse than an air to air for track work but you trade this off for improved response and getting a sensible intercooler position in my
application.
[Edited on 3/3/09 by matnrach]
[Edited on 3/3/09 by matnrach]
 
Rescued attachment newcamera 007small.JPG
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 11:06 PM |
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When are ambient air temps ever greater than 40 degrees? your post turbo air is more like 90, so cooling it to 40 is still a damn good deal.
off bost your cooler doesnt do anything, its never heated above ambient, so cant be cooled, thats why youre air temp drops. The amount of heating
depends on how much you compress the air, so the harder you give it beans the hotter it is. if you cant sustain steady charge temps under full boost
in 5th for the time it takes to rev out then your IC isnt big enough.
under boost you should heat water,and in any second it should be cooled again. if youre relying on the water in the system as a buffer than again,
your system is undersize for your power (may be a compromise youre prepared to takeif youre never on the throttle for long (dont do top speed runs or
the nurburgring)
water injection is just a bodge to cover otherwise inadequate cooling. if the system is adequate under most conditions and water spray is only used in
high ambient temps then fine, if youre routinely using water spray in normal british conditions after a hard session then your system is undersize.
Its all about compromise. if you have a road car youll rarely see full throttle for more than 10 secs, so as long as your charge temps dont go mental
in that time youre fine. with that type of compromise you may then need Wi in hot weather etc.
quote:
Originally posted by hicost
Yes thats true, so what happens when ambient temps are 50, 60, 70 that must be fairly normal, and useless for charge air temps.
25 to 45 is what I would describe as okay, 45 being under boost say around 18/20 psi off boost the temp will drop quick on a air to air.
Unless you are using a one shot ice chest on a charge cooler or co2, under boost you are just heating water.
My water injection cuts in at 52 from the ecu, this is after prolonged boost upto 30 psi.
quote:
Originally posted by alistairolsen
quote:
Originally posted by hicost
I played with a charge cooler for a couple of years, the real problem is getting the temp below "ambient temp" thats why air to air will
always be better. Water just does not respond quick enough.
Think about it ambient is going to be higher than you want and this is your starting point!!
I would rethink your air cooler and invest in a better one or a different one.
James
cooling below ambient is by definition impossible surely?
You cool fromthe compressed temperature down to as close to ambient as you can,but you can never reach it. (well, unless you spray your IC with CO2 or
fill your CC with ice)
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matnrach
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 11:13 PM |
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If the radiator and pump are large enough then there is no reason charge temps should not be controlled at close to ambient . Not sure if I read you
right but I have never seen ambients above 35degC in this country.
For example in the summer with 25degC ambient i never saw more than 35degC at 1bar boost and my rad and pump are quite small.
For me charge cooling was the best solution but if the engine was front mounted or a single seat race car there would be no contest.
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carpmart
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 11:21 PM |
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I see nothing wrong with what you have. Anything else would work no better. See attached my intercooler pipe run. I have little lag and plenty of
airflow over a front mounted (lots of cooling airflow) cooler. The cold and hot sides are pretty similar in length!
My advice is to stick with what you have!
 
Rescued attachment Picture 007.jpg
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 3/3/09 at 11:29 PM |
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Wht car is that?
How much power and what size intercooler core if you dont mine me asking?
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.JPG)
