vindicator
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 04:38 PM |
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dyno log from Stoneleigh, needs explaining
After getting my car off the stand, just had time to get to the dyno lads before they packed up.
In the car is a 1985, pinto 2lt EFI. It suits me as I am not really a boy racer, but decided to check things out.
Please could someone explain to me (i'm not a mechanic, electrically minded or engineer) what this all means.
The dyno lads did not have the time to explain things from the results but I think I am in a bad way as I was informed it badly needs a service (it
has had new sparking plugs last year, air filter, oil changed as well), a sugestion was sticking injectors. How can this be explained from the
chart!!!!what should it look like....
Any help, besides getting a new engine or new car would be appreciated....
 
dynolog
TimR
[Edited on 5-5-2009 by vindicator]
timr.spaces.live.com---build blog
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snapper
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 04:42 PM |
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Erm.... link not working and if i cut and paste it comes up as "file not found"
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 04:44 PM |
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For those that cant see the picture.
Blast beaten to it by original poster.
dynolog
[Edited on 5/5/09 by jollygreengiant]
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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Daimo_45
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 04:46 PM |
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That your pinto has less BHP than a 0.9 litre Smart Car engine but weighs 4 times as much.
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snapper
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 04:49 PM |
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Ahh ... I see it now.
I would set up the rocker gaps, check the timing and set up everything you can then a session on a rolling road should get back the missing horses.
A problem with an injector could well loose you a fair few bhp, why not see if anyone has converted an injection engine to carbs and has the injectors
spare, you could then swap out one injector at a time and possibly isolate the dodgy one.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Danozeman
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 04:52 PM |
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I would think you should have well over 65bhp tbh.
I would get your fueling and ignition checked out by a local tuner. Is your engine tappey? Valve clearances ok?
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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gordon h
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 05:21 PM |
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was i the only happy 1 with 137 from zx9c
bec is best but going to try sabb 2.3 turbo mk
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gazza285
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 05:28 PM |
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Three runs, the top lines are the torque (scale on the right), the bottom ones the power(scale on the left). Something wrong there, you should have
more than that.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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ell_bkr
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 05:41 PM |
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If the oil was changed last year and its been sat over the winter then it would be worth refreshing that aswell.......first thing i did on getting my
new car home was change the oil/filter and i couldnt belive how much better it pulled/ran! Dont think it had been done since the previous summer.
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 05:45 PM |
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OK, well loking at the consistency of the graphs in Shoot 4 mode i would suggest cam timing or clearances, as the graphs are pretty equal in
results.
How is the air intake? Could be strangled?
There is a slight difference in pickup at 1800 revs with torque increasing and bhp but then settles on a steady state climb.
I would have expected about 85-100bhp at wheels dependent on state of tune.
Did they just interpolate roller rpms or did they use all functions? Ignition, Co, etc?
Was that the only print out?
I should point out that if used properly all parameters are measured and capable of being printed, albeit on a seperate sheet.
You've only got temps there:- inlet temp (IT)air temp(AT) , barometric pressure (BP)
Rob Lane
[Edited on 5/5/09 by Rob Lane]
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iank
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 05:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
Three runs, the top lines are the torque (scale on the right), the bottom ones the power(scale on the left). Something wrong there, you should have
more than that.
Roughly double that.
What ECU are you using? all the original sensors in place (and known to be working)?
Pull out the spark plugs one at a time and check the colours, they should all be a uniform tan colour.
See colour chart here
If one or two are 'wrong' then check out the injector on that cylinder, if they're all wrong then your ecu can't cope with
your inlet/exhaust or a sensor isn't working.
Finally the ECU could be in limp home mode due to an out of spec sensor.
All the setting tappets stuff needs doing as well, not hard - it's all in haynes.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 06:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by iank
Roughly double that.
What ECU are you using? all the original sensors in place (and known to be working)?
Finally the ECU could be in limp home mode due to an out of spec sensor.
Would a mid 80's engine have an ecu?
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 07:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Roughly double that.
What ECU are you using? all the original sensors in place (and known to be working)?
Finally the ECU could be in limp home mode due to an out of spec sensor.
Would a mid 80's engine have an ecu?
if its injection, then it has to
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 07:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Roughly double that.
What ECU are you using? all the original sensors in place (and known to be working)?
Finally the ECU could be in limp home mode due to an out of spec sensor.
Would a mid 80's engine have an ecu?
if its injection, then it has to
Is that true? Im pretty sure my golf didnt - K jetronic.
Ref Pinto, i would have thought a good std 2.0 injection should be getting 110 - 120 bhp at flywheel, probs showing 90 - 100 at wheels. Its deinitely
worth going back to basics and checking all settings. Does it run OK? If it runs well and plugs are uniform colour im more inclined to suggest that
the RR hasnt done you any favours and was probs not set up correctly. On the assumption that your car is a tad heavier than most, id gusee you should
be seeing 0-60 times around 7 seconds or so, how does that stack up?
Im a little surprised to see the power dropping off so sharply at higher revs, is the camshaft OK? As said already either badly worn or tappets need
adjusting (you may not be getting max lift on the valves). My cars head was of an injection sierra and the cam was extremely worn.
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omega0684
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 07:17 PM |
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my only comment will be
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 08:41 PM |
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The torque curve looks a little lumpy, but not sure if its the right shape. Bit too flat to me??
Could well be an air restriction as torque is a measure of BMEP - and bhp is only a rev-based version of it.
Long live RWD...
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vindicator
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 09:40 PM |
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thanks for the reply's most were helpful. The car to me seemed ok, only a bit of backfiring now and again when taking the big right foot off the
peddle. It did a whole days drive round the peak district and snake's pass without any trouble a few weeks ago. (omega0684 missed out on that
one!!)
Usually it does 70 on the motorway ok, but have to push it over 70 if I am on a private road (honestly!!!). It is out once or twice a week doing 60
miles per day to work and back.
Some collegues say that they wished they had the same power as me....but I can't understand the print out.
Yes, the 2lt pinto should do 115BHP when new, but this print out is in HP as other things are attached to the engine now and will show lower figures.
The tappets are ok and don't rattle, the air supply is pretty straight with a big cone filter on it. The only thing is oil seals which I want to
do next as when I first start it from cold there is a bit of blue smoke other than that it is very clean.
I have bought some new plug leads from the show and will put these on as the old ones have never been changed by me and are looking quite old.
I have some spare time tomorrow night and will check the timing and plugs and let you know what I find...
regards..
TimR
timr.spaces.live.com---build blog
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ss1turbo
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| posted on 5/5/09 at 09:44 PM |
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Only real thing I can think of is a severe lack of valve lift.
Ford bhp figures were always a little on the "optomistic" side - no carburettored 1600CVH ever made 96bhp from the factory! Even so,
that's a lot of horses that have escaped...
I'd suggest trying to measure the valve lift and compare it with stock..
Long live RWD...
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Rob Allison
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| posted on 6/5/09 at 12:53 AM |
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The plot aint worth anything without the AFR plot on. So you can see the fueling.
I guess they didn't fit the lambda probe for the runs ?
[Edited on 6/5/09 by Rob Allison]
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iank
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| posted on 6/5/09 at 06:16 AM |
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The "problem" with light cars is 60bhp will feel the same as 120bhp in a tin-top, so as long as it's smooth you won't feel
it's a problem if not used to the face wobbling acceleration they can give.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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procomp
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| posted on 6/5/09 at 07:44 AM |
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Hi
Just out of interest which company was it with the dyno.
Cheers Matt
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vindicator
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| posted on 6/5/09 at 10:49 AM |
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As I said previously, the show had closed (4.30pm) and we got our cars off the stand and raced over there. The lads from M-tech could have said no as
they wanted to leave as well. It was the only graph I was given and no other sensor was connected.
The company was M-tech automotive (that is the name on the printed graph)....they have a web site based in the south (Wiltshire). Just had another
look at their web site and found the pics of the staff (owners!!). Thank you Mathew!!!
I think it was brilliant of them to show up and give us some food for thought.
Not advertising for them, but they do an all round system check on all cars.
timr.spaces.live.com---build blog
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 6/5/09 at 11:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by vindicator
Yes, the 2lt pinto should do 115BHP when new, but this print out is in HP as other things are attached to the engine now and will show lower figures.
I think you may be getting confused between the old SAE gross and net power measurements, where the gross figure measures power with no ancillaries.
BHP just shows that HP has been measured using a brake, it doesn't differentiate between a chassis or engine dyno or whether ancillaries were
fitted.
Since your car was measured on a rolling road, the transmission losses mean less power is available at the wheels. This is partially compensated for
by attempting to measure transmission loss via the coast down. However, this is very rough estimate at best and can be considerably affected by tyre
pressures and health of gearbox and final drive, since the torque through these components is reversed (and far lower) during coast down.
Still, the figures shown on the graph do suggest the engine is not especially healthy. Are you running with a non-original fuel pump or pressure
regulator? Have you ever fiddled with the air flow meter?
If no to the above I'd suggest pulling the plugs and seeing if they all look the same. Then move onto the following:
1) Ignition timing.
2) Cam timing (tooth out?)
3) Cam wear (common problem on Pinto)
4) Check for restriction in either inlet or exhaust (e.g. throttle not opening fully, collapsed baffle in exhaust or unsuitable silencer)
5) Cylinder compressions.
It also sounds like a thorough service including a refresh of ignition components would be a good idea.
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vindicator
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| posted on 6/5/09 at 11:10 AM |
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Thanks for the info Mike, will try and get home early tonight and take the spark plugs out and check them out. May even publish the pics....
TimR
ps. Have also a new set of ignition leads to fit. The fuel I have not touched and still using the same pump that came with the engine. Have put a
filter between the tank and the pump.....
[Edited on 6-5-2009 by vindicator]
timr.spaces.live.com---build blog
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vindicator
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| posted on 6/5/09 at 07:40 PM |
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Well here goes.....
Started to take off the leads from the dizzy cap and found only one side was screwed in the other side was loose....
Changed the leads and found a slight cut on the outer covering.
 
leads
Took the plugs out and checked the gaps and they were not to bad but they do look a mess. A few mins with a wire brush and they came back to new
again.
 
plugs
Decided to take a quick trip round town and the drive fell very light and instant response from the engine. Even starting from hot the engine starts
first click, before it took a few turns of the engine to start.
So I think I have got back a few more horses.....next task shortly is the valve seals ......
thanks for your help .....
Regards
timr.spaces.live.com---build blog
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