RK
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| posted on 21/6/09 at 06:38 PM |
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LED indicator + bulbs
I have LED lights at the back, and regular bulbs everywhere else. I am not talking about the hazards. This is on a completely separate fuse in my
system. Hellfire's, for example, uses the same fuse for both.
Problem:
The LED's require an LED relay. How is this wired for the indicators? How can it be wired so the regular bulbs get power from their own relay,
whilst the LED's get power from their LED flasher relay? Do I need two of these - one for each side?
Wiring the LED relay in parallel with the regular relay, BEFORE the indicator switch does not work. Wiring it AFTER the switch means the relay
doesn't know which side you want, and flashes both.
Second question: what is the easiest way to wire indicator lights? If it means patching my holes in the arches to fit different lights, I will do it.
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Steve G
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| posted on 21/6/09 at 06:43 PM |
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Took me only 2 mins to alter the wiring to accept LEDs when i fitted rear LED lights to a car. You will only need the one flasher relay - the LED
flasher relay will run standard bulbs just the same. All i needed to do myself was swap a couple of terminals around in the relay holder to suit the
flasher relay as the configuration was different.
Easy job once you figure out what wires are what.
[Edited on 21/6/09 by Steve G]
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RK
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 01:58 AM |
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UPDATE:
My Led flash relay won't run regular bulbs. It needs to be wired in parallel with the regular flash relay, and then on to the indicator switch.
I started all over, when I checked the multimeter reading which showed the problem was the MGB INDICATOR stalk, which had too much resistance to allow
any power through to the lights. I have replaced this with a simple dash mounted ON - OFF - ON toggle, and everything should be OK. I apologise in
advance if this isn't the case...
Thank you. It's good to vent.
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Staple balls
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 02:09 AM |
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That sounds... odd.
Any chance of a diagram? just for my own curiosity more than anything 
Also, seems strange (but not impossible) that a stalk would have too much resistance, double checked your wiring and cleaned the power connectors?
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RK
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 02:35 AM |
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I posted a diagram (that did not work) in another thread. I also asked around, searched the web and looked for what the wires may be that come out of
the stalk. I found the following with my multimeter (I found nothing useful anywhere else):
Black - if this is earthed, the fuse blows, if not, and left alone, power goes to the following:
Green/White - Right Turn
Green/Brown - Positive power in
Green/Red - Left Turn
Purple/Black - ?
Green/Blue -?
I have been at this exact issue for a couple of weeks now, and am beyond doing anything more with stuff that doesn't work the first 50 times. At
some point, it is not cost/time/mental health effective. I have moved on from the MGB stalk, and I look forward to life again.
I very much look forward, once I'm finished, to destroying, with the biggest hammer I can find, all the parts that didn't work for this
car.
A sincere thanks to everyone again.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 07:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Staple balls
That sounds... odd.
Agreed, I can't see how wiring two flasher relays in parallel could ever work properly.
Normal solution is to use a traditional flasher relay plus some resistive load to make it work with LED's, or use an electronic relay that will
work with any load.
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Staple balls
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 01:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Staple balls
That sounds... odd.
Agreed, I can't see how wiring two flasher relays in parallel could ever work properly.
Normal solution is to use a traditional flasher relay plus some resistive load to make it work with LED's, or use an electronic relay that will
work with any load.
I'd be concerned that if the conventional relay isn't getting enough load (is it buzzing or clicking?) it'll probably overheat and
cook in fairly short order.
But if RK is happy with that, who am I to argue?
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RK
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 01:38 PM |
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So does any electronic relay work for LED's? I thought it had to be one of those motorcycle ones, specific to LED's.
[Edited on 22/6/09 by RK]
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Steve G
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 01:50 PM |
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The one I used certainly wasnt motorcycle specific. I used one i got from the States off ebay - before they became more commonly available over in the
UK. I used one of these
flashe
r relay
Found that one really simple to wire in myself and only had to swap two wires around on the relay holder to suit when switching from a standard
flasher relay. They operate independantly of load effectively like a timer so give the correct flash rate irrespective of standard or LED bulbs used
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Staple balls
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 01:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RK
So does any electronic relay work for LED's? I thought it had to be one of those motorcycle ones, specific to LED's.
[Edited on 22/6/09 by RK]
It'll work, but the standard flasher relays need a certain amount of load (it should be marked on the relay) to flash at the correct rate.
A motorcycle one uses magic (or possibly a timer) to flash at the correct rate, though I'm not sure how much load they can handle. (though, the
one Steve G linked while I was getting breakfast seems to handle 150W)
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RK
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| posted on 23/6/09 at 12:01 AM |
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I am having trouble find LED flasher relays locally. Again, do all the electronic ones work with LED's? Or are they limited to regular bulbs?
Thanks again guys!!
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Steve G
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| posted on 23/6/09 at 07:13 AM |
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The electronic ones will work with either regular bulbs or LED bulbs - so long as the total current draw is between the rating of the relay.
For example a 21W indicator bulb draws 1.75Amps (21Watts / 12Volts = current in Amps) and a 5W bulb (side repeater) draws about 0.4Amps. Most cars
with 2 x 21W and 1 x 5W indicators will draw around 4 Amps. Well within the 20A limit that most flasher relays quote. With LED's, the current
draw is small but pretty safe to say it will be above the 0.02A quoted as the minimum. This type of flasher relay is therefore great for using with
either, or, or both types of bulb.
I had to get mine mail order in the UK so Ebay is probably your best bet anyway. Here's one in the US anyway. Maybe you will find cheaper on
Canada Ebay?
link to US ebay
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RK
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| posted on 23/6/09 at 11:21 AM |
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Excellent! Now I'm getting somewhere.
Thank you!!
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 24/6/09 at 02:23 PM |
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i tried to use a normal electronic relay from CBS with front and rear led's and it didn't work. had to get a proper led one
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RK
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| posted on 24/6/09 at 11:51 PM |
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I just bought an LED one. It didn't allow any current through when measured with a multimeter. I am totally at a loss with this. Am I the ONLY
one who can't get it to work?
[Edited on 24/6/09 by RK]
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Staple balls
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| posted on 25/6/09 at 12:31 AM |
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Try wiring it up as it would be when in use, with bulbs and current, rather than pissing about with a multimeter.
Most likely it needs some load to actually work (the one Steve G linked to, for example, needs 0.2A to function)
Problem with multimeters is they very good at measuring stuff, without adding too much extra, if you need load for something to work, a spare bulb
(damn near any bulb) will do you more use then the best multimeter in the world.
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RK
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| posted on 25/6/09 at 02:00 AM |
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I tried 2 regular bulbs plus the LED. Zero.
If this doesn't work, I'm looking at 2 new arches because I have great holes in them for the LED's that I'm not going to
patch, and Caterham lights, which run about $150 a pair in Canada. Not looking good.
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Staple balls
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| posted on 25/6/09 at 02:04 AM |
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Got any photos/diagrams of your wiring? and what you've tested?
Hell, even a link/pinout/photo of the exact relay you have could be a great deal of help.
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RK
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| posted on 25/6/09 at 02:33 AM |
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Relay #1: wired into the fuse circuit. It is round, silver and works only with bulbs. It is the exact same one as in the Hazards circuit, which is not
wired into the fuse circuit.
2 prong, Tridon, 552, DOT. 12V 32 CP Max6, Made in Indonesia. This flashes bulbs at a good rate (one per second).
Relay #2: Can't remember, I took it back to the store. It was square and black, and had a number of prongs on the back.
Relay #3: 3 prong, Grote, LED Flasher 44890 Max 20 amps, Min 1 amp, SAE J945, J590 FMVSS 108. And the unbelievable part: Made in Canada. Of course it
was the $34 one.
These have all been wired directly to bulbs AND an LED tail light. Everything was grounded. The LED lights up, but won't flash.
Are there regular lights/housing that would cover a 104 mm hole?
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Staple balls
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| posted on 25/6/09 at 02:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RK
Relay #3: 3 prong, Grote, LED Flasher 44890 Max 20 amps, Min 1 amp, SAE J945, J590 FMVSS 108. And the unbelievable part: Made in Canada. Of course it
was the $34 one.
Going off the Pinout on the Grote website, and the info on
VWP I reckon it needs wiring up like
 
Description
But, It's possible Lamp and Switch are backwards, from the wording on the Grote page.
Also, remember to earth the tail 
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ken555
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| posted on 25/6/09 at 10:29 AM |
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Just modify a "normal" one to remove the double speed warning mode, that causes the problems.
On most GM relays just cut the track to pin 7
Here's how I did it
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RK
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| posted on 25/6/09 at 12:41 PM |
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Thanks but that is way beyond me!!
I am going to try the old one again, with more bulbs in parallel. I'll keep everyone up on it.
If I end up doing this, ANYBODY can.
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RK
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| posted on 25/6/09 at 11:20 PM |
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Steve Hignett is a ...c.in' genius!!!!!
Applying regular bulbs in parallel with the LED opens the flasher relay, and to make a long story short (because of my short attention span), the LED
flashes at the correct speed, with NO mods at all.
Thank you everyone.
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