leemarkadams
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 posted on 14/8/09 at 12:46 PM |
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What should I be getting at each wire in this relay? Update was using wrong bloody diagram!!!
First off, apologies for yet another post!
Right, as you may have seen in the previous post I have changed the relay, the fuel pump and now a different ICU, all to no avail.
Now I am going to have to conduct a more thorough check of the loom and as I am not a qualified sparky I was wondering if anyone could tell me what I
should be getting at each wire on the relay highlighted, and also what should I be getting at each wire on the ICU.
Here is the diagram I have been working off:
 
Description
Hopefully someone can help me out, as not 100% whether I should be getting a +ve or -ve on the various coloured wires...
Thanks in advance
Lee (Still smiling....just!)
[Edited on 14/8/09 by leemarkadams]
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speed8
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 01:01 PM |
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I think but may be wrong...
Red/Black 12V in
Black/Yellow goes to ground through Clutch/Sidestand switch (you can bypass both by taking it straight to ground from the relay)
Blue/Red goes to ground through the ECU so probably open when the fuel pump isn't running.
Black/Blue is 12V to Fuel Pump only when Blue/Red goes to ground
Blue/Yellow is 12V in for Neutral
Light Blue goes to ground when in neutral
The black, I believe, goes to ground through your start switch.
Have I missed any?
ETA
Blue/White is 12V in
[Edited on 14/8/2009 by speed8]
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speed8
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 01:25 PM |
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Just read the other post.
If you can turn over then that suggests your neutral/side stand/clutch are bypassed adequately although I would still go ahead and ground the
black/yellow from the relay to be sure.
I took a seperate 12V supply for my neutral just so I could use the indicator light without going through the relay.
Problem sounds like either the cyclelock or fuel pump part of the relay.
Check the ground wire from the pump itself (just use a meter from the connector to chassis to see if you have ground.
If thats ok then take the blue/red direct to ground and turn on the 12V to see if the fuel pump runs.
If it does run now then the problem is either ECU which you have already changed or one of the ground wires coming from the ECU is maybe broken/bad
connection.
I don't have an ECU pin out for a 99 as I have an 03 but if needed i'm sure there will be one somewhere on here.
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TimC
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 01:38 PM |
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Mate, seriously, junk the whole bloody relay assembly. Its a nonsense in a car.
Just buy a lucas-style (landrover) starter solenoid and wire it like a car.
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 02:49 PM |
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Thanks for the replies,
Will check them all again at some stage as even thought the starter turns it may well be due the fact the car is using a Sierra ign column and a
seperate starter button, so may well be able to work if everything else is not?
If Cyclelock, how do I go about sorting that, as it used to be working fine!!!
Lee
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adithorp
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 04:10 PM |
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You need to find out how it's actually wired and whether it has the Cycle Lock fitted. Do wires go where they're shown on the diagram or
has it been altered when installed? Untill you check if the diagram is what you've got then it's like trying to find your way around
London with a map of Paris!
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 04:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
You need to find out how it's actually wired and whether it has the Cycle Lock fitted. Do wires go where they're shown on the diagram or
has it been altered when installed? Untill you check if the diagram is what you've got then it's like trying to find your way around
London with a map of Paris!
I could not agree more, the wires do seem to be going where they should but I have seen a few random black wires in there, but only 2 of them seem to
be not connected to anything.
If I was to make a new loom up would I need the cyclelock or can it be totally bypassed? Also, how can I tell if it has cyclelock fitted? But it
used to bloody well work!!
Thanks
Lee
[Edited on 14/8/09 by leemarkadams]
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speed8
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 05:06 PM |
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If you have the black wire coming from the relay then most likely you have (or at least had) the cyclelock. Most people bypass it by looping through
the necessary wires and cutting off the rest of the unnecessary ones.
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 07:00 PM |
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A bit of an update...........may have been looking at the wrong loom diagram, as noticed my starter relay has 10 wires and the diagram I have been
looking at has 8! Yes, the word nob springs to mind.........anyway, here is what I beleive to be the correct diagram, as the 5JJ ICU and the 10 pins
all collate up. It would also mean Cyclelock is present, so does this help anyone?
In summary am not getting the fuel pump priming or a spark (getting the starter going though but that could be due to it using a Sierra key switch and
a button starter).
So, what should I be getting at each of the wires on the relay highlighted in red and how can I ensure the cyclelock is bypassed (as said before was
running fine before)?
 
correct loom
Once again, apologies and I shall flail myself to teach myself a lesson!
Lee
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speed8
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 09:27 PM |
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The first difference is that the clutch and sidestand switch are seperate which allows it to start if one of three systems are used, i.e.
clutch/sidestand or clutch/neutral or neutral only.
The only other difference is that the neutral light on the dash is a seperate circuit taking is 12V from the cyclelock through the led to the relay
and going to ground through the neutral switch.
The same as I said above should apply for everything else and check it the same way to at least find out if the fuel pump runs through the relay.
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 09:47 PM |
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Thanks once more, please see the comments in your quoted reply:
quote:
Originally posted by speed8
The first difference is that the clutch and sidestand switch are seperate which allows it to start if one of three systems are used, i.e.
clutch/sidestand or clutch/neutral or neutral only.
*****If these are ready to go, such as sidestand is UP, should these be +ve or -ve?****
The only other difference is that the neutral light on the dash is a seperate circuit taking is 12V from the cyclelock through the led to the relay
and going to ground through the neutral switch.
******Just to confirm the wire from the LED to the relay should be +ve?*****
The same as I said above should apply for everything else and check it the same way to at least find out if the fuel pump runs through the relay.
[Edited on 14/8/09 by leemarkadams]
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speed8
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| posted on 14/8/09 at 09:53 PM |
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Bypass the cutoffs and take the black/yellow straight to ground. Thats probably whats been done in any case.
From led to relay is +ve on the light blue/white but makes no difference for now as it won't affect anything you're trying to do.
Assuming you ground the black/yellow you can then join the light blue/white and light blue to work your neutral indicator independantly of the relay.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 15/8/09 at 10:07 AM |
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Well i've taken out all the unrequired wiring and here's the picture. I'm now working through a list of checks for you ( may take a
while though)
EDITED TO ADD. the small short pieces of wiring between the long wires are not reall there i just didn't erase them. Also there a re still a few
wires not taken out ( was getting to 2 am so I went to bed)
 
Description
I'm not up on motor cycles but perhaps someone can explain what this cycle lock thing is.
Does it exist on ever vehicle?
Is it some sort of fixed immobilizer unit ( it looks like it must be)
If you dont have it as an option on the bike then there must be some sort of linking plug fitted to connect the required earths/lives together to
complete some of the circuitry.
[Edited on 15/8/09 by omega 24 v6]
[Edited on 15/8/09 by omega 24 v6]
[Edited on 15/8/09 by omega 24 v6]
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 15/8/09 at 07:59 PM |
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Thanks for all the help, hoping to get more time on it next weekend and then get the bloody thing working!
Lee
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leemarkadams
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| posted on 16/8/09 at 05:01 PM |
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Ok, been and tested all the connections on the relay and here are the results:
Red/Black = +ve
Black/Yellow = -ve
Blue/Red = -ve (but only for 7 seconds after ign turned on, then nothing)
Black/Blue = -ve
Blue/Yellow = -ve
Light Blue = -ve (when in neutral, else no signal)
Light Blue/White = -ve
Blue/White = +ve
Black wire 1 = -ve
Black wire 2 = connected to another black wire and when they are connected to earth the starter motor turns.
Is this any help?
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 17/8/09 at 08:20 PM |
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Well i finally got time to look at it.
So it turns over OK yes or no?
The pump runs yes or no or does it only prime?
After cranking the pump does not run yes or no? If no it could be because the ign unit is NOT giving a spark so the pump will not run if the engines
is stalled i.e in a crash the contents of the tank will not spew out if there is no ign pulse from the ecu ( some cars do this but not sure about
bikes).
There should be power at the ecu and the coils and the relay WHILE CRANKING if not then no spark
The cycle lock is an issue for me as I cannot see what it does internally. But I'd assume its either a series of earth links and live links or
an immobilizer type idea.
To my mind the black on the far left of the relay pack PROBABLY goes through the cycle lock to the start switch and back through the cycle lock to
earth So you could just try to go from the relay unit to earth and see if it turns over. (I think you may have already said it does turn over Ok)
The farthest right wire ( is it blue or blue and black)? goes to the ign module and to my mind will join internally ( probably via the clutch/side
stand/ neutral switch etc) to an earth this will make the pump run. So you could try and earth it to see if the pump does run ( it should pull in the
fuel pump relay) disconnect or cut the wire so you are not grounding the ecu just in case there's a problem internally.
My gut feeling is that there may be a problem with a live during cranking not being present hence no spark.
Also I feel there may be other add ons you've not found/told us about to make it fit the sierra ign switch.
See how you get on with that lot for now.
Usual rules of own risk /not my blame if it goes on fire etc apply.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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