threeansix
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 posted on 21/8/11 at 11:22 AM |
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chassis options for race car?
so, i've decided to build a seven type car for racing (not locosts). i'm struggling on chassis choice though and was hoping for some input
from memebers of this forum.
engine will be 2.0 zetec or duratec, maybe even 2.3 duratec as it fits with the class limits.
this is what i've come up with so far:
caterham. far too expensive for me.
westfield. very expensive,presumably decent resale value though? popular choice / the benchmark?
mk. seem to be reasonable enough price and Danny seems to have his going well enough, but i have concerns about the chassis accuracy / self centreing
steering etc, and i really dont like the way the front of the roll cage fastens in.
aries. again seems to be very reasonabley priced. dont know too much else about them other than they used to be made by stm? which always seems good
quality and quick. Rob Spencer races one or did (i think) which seems to give Danny Keenans a good enough run for its money.
procomp. seems like the best quality chassis and the old guy seems really helpfull and to know what he's talking about, but it really does seem
to be a 'one man band' operation, which puts me off a little with regard to spares etc in the future. also i've never seen them used
outside of locosts, which admitedley they are very good at.
any others?
advice welcome .
thanks.
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chesney321
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 11:32 AM |
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go with aries.i may be biased as i have just finished building one and am awaiting iva but steve of aries is a great chap.and very helpful
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carlknight1982
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 12:12 PM |
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Talk to Andy @ Saturn Sports Cars They build a Car for Team Train Racing
Linky
Logic will get you from a A to B
Imagination will take you everywhere.
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danny keenan
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 01:01 PM |
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hi mate
you are more than welcome to come and have a look round my race car.
you can even come and measure an indy-r and see there are no issues withe our chassis steering etc.
i have got alot of interest in our race cars this year and im going to run a test sesion for all the people interested.
they can come along and drive my car and go from there if they want to order one.
but i dont think you will find a better handling seven car on the market for the price
thanks danny
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mookaloid
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 01:23 PM |
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no disrespect to Danny and his achievements but Procomp would be my choice for racing.
Danny may well be right that you can't get better for the price - but that doesn't mean you can't get better if you spend more.
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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scootz
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 01:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
no disrespect to Danny and his achievements but Procomp would be my choice for racing.
Danny may well be right that you can't get better for the price - but that doesn't mean you can't get better if you spend more.
+1
It's Evolution Baby!
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designer
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 03:11 PM |
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It's OK to copy the winning cars, but are you prosperous enough to throw the same money at the sport as them?
I would go for the smallest overall package first if I wanted to start racing.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 03:52 PM |
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The details of setup are the often what most makes the difference between a a winner and a tail ender.
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franky
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 04:12 PM |
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The MK cars seem to be doing well and i'm sure they're very good cars. However as mentioned it comes down to a particular car's
setup. You could turn any car into a race winner(within reason).
There's someone who comes on here who makes the best seven style car the world has ever seen and it's the best thing to ever grace a
racetrack. I just can't put my finger on why everyone doesn't race/drive one.
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JohnH
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 04:25 PM |
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Go will an Aries.....I am building one at the min (1.8 zetec).Every thing fits were it should and Steve is one of the most helpfull blocks you could
wish to deal with..The Chassis won the 750 race for years.Steve is also a worker not a sales man.........kit Car mag did a write up,worth a read.Good
luck mate.
John
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chris mason
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 04:40 PM |
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It might be a good idea to take up Dannys offer of a future test drive/factory visit.
He's put in some good results with the car this year, and i notice he won again at Oulton park yesterday, claiming both the fastest lap in both
qualifying and the race.
As a track/race car i think they are proving some of the myths wrong this season, well worth considering as a viable race car option these days.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 07:24 PM |
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No one seems to have mentioned mnr. I know of Paul who sprints his zzr1400 with great results and a couple of others who race. Can't comment on
the others but have had STM and mnr road cars and preferred the mnr in every way. But it was a higher budget car with more upgraded parts!
I would say a light weight aries would be very quick with a bike engine
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austin man
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 07:51 PM |
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Agreed with Chris MK have come a long way Danny is currently leading the pack and is now putting fasterst laps in, the Locoblade that Spencer runs is
a good performing motor however it is coming second more often than first now I would say that is testament to the build and design of the Indy R also
that Danny is now showing improvements as a Race driver. You have to remember that Spencer has developed his car over a long period of time and also
has several more years more racing behing him. He is a truly good driver so it would appear that the MK developments have the edge at this time.
MK's race cars are built to the same spec so can each be set to the drivers specifications, you can opt for fully roesejointed suspension so any
problems with steering can be dialled out. PS if the roll cage bothers you aske them to fit one to your specification.
I would definitely take Danny up on the offer, you could always pop in for their open day in September
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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TimC
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 08:17 PM |
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Procomp are a two-man father and son band. Don't worry about spares - everything is done in-house and they will always do everything in their
power to keep their customers racing. I believe that they actually helped Ian Gray at STM develop what is now the Aries Locost and will tell you that
it is the best budget option available; its not perfect though and hence you're better off with the LA Gold.
Their customer service is second-to-none in my view - and I've never owned one of their cars sadly.
Oh, and in answer to Austin Man's comment above, do not use Spencer's car as a reference point for any comparison, unless you are
intending to take a Locost chassis and fit a wide track rear and a standard track Caterham front end... another case of half truths and sh*t
information I'm afraid.
[Edited on 21/8/11 by TimC]
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austin man
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| posted on 21/8/11 at 10:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TimC
Procomp are a two-man father and son band. Don't worry about spares - everything is done in-house and they will always do everything in their
power to keep their customers racing. I believe that they actually helped Ian Gray at STM develop what is now the Aries Locost and will tell you that
it is the best budget option available; its not perfect though and hence you're better off with the LA Gold.
Their customer service is second-to-none in my view - and I've never owned one of their cars sadly.
Oh, and in answer to Austin Man's comment above, do not use Spencer's car as a reference point for any comparison, unless you are
intending to take a Locost chassis and fit a wide track rear and a standard track Caterham front end... another case of half truths and sh*t
information I'm afraid.
[Edited on 21/8/11 by TimC]
As I said Spencers car has been developed over time. Whatever he has done to it has reaped rewards as it has been the car to chase in the series, it
has been both Chris Marries and Danny Keenans nemesis over the last few seasons , it has been the car to beat.
LA Gold tends to be heard more in the 750 circles which is a more restricted series than any of the BEC series ie engine power, chasis
modifications etc I personally haven't heard of them winning outside of this series with more powerfull engines (I only follow the BARC and 750
motorclub). Oh and please dont take that as a negative comment because it isn'nt I havent driven one but have seen plenty battling it out in one
of the closest racing series you could ever wish to see, which must be a testament to the build and design
When push comes to shove all the kits have weaknesses it doesn't matter whether its a Caterham, Wesfiels, Aries, La Gold etc etc they could all
improve in some way shape or form. Which is possibly why Spencers car has been so formiddable he would on the face of it appear to have taken the best
bits from all.
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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threeansix
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| posted on 22/8/11 at 12:12 PM |
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thanks for the input so far guys, some very interesting and varied opinions.
as far as copying the winning cars go, and money, well im not afraid to through a decent chunk of money at it. like i said a caterham is more than
i'm prepared to pay for a race car and a westfield too is expensive and leaves me thinking that it just a case of paying for a name.
i did go to see procomp and mk ( and was impessed with both for diferent reasons) a long time ago, but have been away doing other things since
then.
you defo cant take it away from danny at the moment hes doing well with the car.
cheers,
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adithorp
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| posted on 22/8/11 at 12:28 PM |
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I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Striker and if you're not 100% set on a seven style, the Pheonix (same chassis as a Striker and
now back in RAW hands) or Fury. Plenty of prooven race pedigree with all three.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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gavin174
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| posted on 22/8/11 at 01:36 PM |
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My advice would be have a good look around at the race series's.
Decide what series you want to race in, see what cars are doing well and decide from there.
A seven is normally only competitive against other seven's, not impossible to beat full body kits
but aero packadge is pretty poor on a seven
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
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procomp
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| posted on 23/8/11 at 11:04 AM |
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Hi
Just a few words to put right some of the rather misleading comments from above.
Not winning outside of the 750MC. Well i find that rather strange as we have won out right in the welsh sprint championship and had class wins whilst
setting new times and 0-64 ft records. Great success in the magnificent sevens championships when we have entered some of there rounds with basic 750
Kits spec cars. And had quite a bit of success with the Irish lads doing auto-solo events to mention just a few.
As for not running cars with much power well again rather strange as i seem to recall over the last 25 years we have built some very successful cars
running 300HP Swindon VX's ( Works Vauxhall touring engines ) 300+HP Works Renault Touring engines. And where one off the first to use Honda
power some 18 years ago with a NA 411 HP screamer built by Tom Laffey, Not too mention all the cars built with 200 HP Xflows.
The success comes from not just producing and building the cars to a very high standard but also in knowing what you are doing with chassis design and
setup. Which is why so many off the other manufacturers kit cars that have been successful have been through our hands and had our input in
development. Which means that when you buy our product it comes with everything right first time. You don't have to then take the product you
have brought and modify the chassis re-position all the pickup points and extra bracing to stop the chassis flexing or put up with the chassis
breaking / fracturing every other race. It comes as a product ready to do the job it was sold to do. So what looks like a little extra outlay
initially actually works out to be quite cheap in comparison by the time you have the car in a true competitive state. And comes with experience that
goes from looking after complete novice race drivers to working with FIA GT teams.
Cheers Matt
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Mike Wood
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| posted on 23/8/11 at 05:03 PM |
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Anyone know the difference between an LA Roadster and an LA Gold? Is the former an earlier version of the latter?
Reason for asking: L A ROADSTER KIT CAR | eBay
If a LA Roadster is any good, then looks like the price will go up!
Cheers
Mike
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danny keenan
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| posted on 23/8/11 at 06:50 PM |
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unless iv had memory loss i cant remeber ever bracing my chassis moving any brackets.
or is it that mine must be a one of car and iv been lucky lol.
i think it shows with the results iv been having that i no what im doing with car setup.and there are no handling issues with the indy-r.
thanks danny
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procomp
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| posted on 23/8/11 at 07:01 PM |
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Hi
Danny did i mention an Mk. However i do seem to recall that yours and the other car both had the chassis fail as did Ian kempsons on many occasions
and that's a FACT witnessed by many people so you cant Denny that.
Also if you actually take the times you are achieving with the hayabusa and slicks and compare to the RGB times achieved with yoko AO48's and
1000cc motors you really are not going that quick in comparison. but then you are running in a championship where even when you finish 3 LAPS down on
the leader of your class you still achieve points for 3rd place in class. Not exactly competitive is it.
Cheers Matt
Oh yea just had pointed out that you have increased the bracing on your car technically. Your car was originally built with a 1 1/2" roll cage
as it was on the stand at auto sport this year. Which then suddenly appeared with 1 3/4" dia tubing. Yes that was when members of MK threatened
physical abuse when i asked them if they could provide the paperwork for the roll cage to go with a customers MK car in for race preparation.
Obviously you could not provide that paper work and where lying.
[Edited on 23/8/11 by procomp]
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danny keenan
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| posted on 23/8/11 at 07:14 PM |
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if you or any rgb car would like to come and race with us iv got lots of slicks to lend out just to see who is talking rubbish.
these rgb cars you talk about are not seven style cars.iv only every seen a faster time done by an rgb car once this year and that was at mallory park
by a spire.
my car broke last year due to a 100mph shunt up the back of a westfield.this years car has been trouble free.
the slicks iv been using cost only £10 i think they are well past there best.
when i put new slicks on at croft i was 5 seconds faster than last year.
so i dont think iv been doing bad the rest of the time when all the other front runners have new tyres every two races
thanks
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procomp
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| posted on 23/8/11 at 07:31 PM |
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Hi
So you deny that an Mk IndyR chassis had chassis failure whilst running in the CNC championship without race damage and that Ian kempsons car has had
numerous chassis failures during the 2010 season. ?
Cheers Matt
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lsdweb
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| posted on 23/8/11 at 08:17 PM |
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It may help if we knew what the regs are. Slicks? Road going?
Wyn
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