jeffw
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| posted on 9/11/11 at 09:37 PM |
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Supercharging my Zetec
So I'm about to start ordering up the parts I need to supercharge my Zetec. I'm going to go for the Omex kit which includes the mounting
brackets, tensioner system, Rotrex, alternator & belts etc. This will mean I can run my Omex 600 with the kit and it should do 260-270 in low
boost mode (0.5-0.6) which will be safe enough before I change the rods & pistons and run it upto 1bar.
To fit this kit I need a intercooler and a plenum. I think the best way forward on the Plenum is to use the GTiR Plenum which Flak used for his
Duratec build and get someone to design and cut a new back plate for the GTiR plenum to mount on my 45mm DCOE spaced Jenvey throttle bodies. Is there
anyone on here fancy taking on the work?
I'm also going to need to run a MAP sensor of the inlet manifold so I will need to get this balanced across all the inlets. Any ideas on how to
achieve this?
I reckon charge cooling will be easier to package into the Phoenix than intercooling. Anybody any thoughts on that or a good source of a charge
cooler kit?
I love winter upgrades 
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 9/11/11 at 10:09 PM |
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Jeff,
Intercooling isn't as bad as you might think in the Phoenix. It is much easier than in a seven as your inlet/outlet hoses can use the space
under the bonnet so you can have a standard FMIC.
I too had worried about it, but saw the factory Red supercharged Phoenix at the Stoneleigh show and they had put an intercooler in this location. So
I copied it.
Temperatures used to get to 60deg under boost (without it), but now they hardly flinch (except at idle) although I am only running 9psi.
I preferred intercooler as it is lighter, cheaper, simpler and doesn't require any additional electrical power. Anyway here are a few photos,
which might explain what I mean.
Mine was a cheap intercooler from e-bay (UNIVERSAL 2.5" FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER 595x175x65mm, from the embarassingly named 2fast2cool, £80)
which is shiny and seems to work, but I am sure you can source a more distinguished item. Before anyone starts, yes I know 2.5inch is larger piping
than necessary/optimal.
Matt
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ldx
pqiv6q4c/Te_zYQbTR8I/AAAAAAAAA54/wnuVLQanCMI/s576/DSC02075.JPG?gl=GB
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1MS
heR37cRg/Te_zVZHXIeI/AAAAAAAAA50/ztuNofC3TeU/s720/DSC02074.JPG?gl=GB
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9lw
tW5yPDtQ/Te_zR2DgbNI/AAAAAAAAA5s/r_4pteWUXWY/s720/DSC02072.JPG?gl=GB
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-txJ
DQkpqnJ8/Te_zcQs6BvI/AAAAAAAAA6E/387Vaz4S5Po/s720/DSC02078.JPG?gl=GB
edited to sort my pictures out.
[Edited on 9/11/11 by matt_gsxr]
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djtom
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| posted on 9/11/11 at 10:12 PM |
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Depending on cost, I'd be interested in getting a backplate for a gtir plenum too - I've been meaning to make one up for ages but have
never got round to it.
I was thinking something along these lines, but to be done
much much cheaper - £1300 for an new intake system is 
My version will use a set of gsxr600 tb's I have knocking around.
I did speak to the guy to see if he could get more made, but he paid over £150 for a backplate and a spacer which I thought was a bit much.
Tom
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dlatch
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| posted on 9/11/11 at 10:16 PM |
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interesting stuff and i hope there will be a project thread to follow on this conversion jeff 
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madteg
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| posted on 9/11/11 at 10:28 PM |
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DONT FORGET TO CHANGE THE ROD BOLT TO ARP ONES.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 9/11/11 at 11:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
I'm also going to need to run a MAP sensor of the inlet manifold so I will need to get this balanced across all the inlets. Any ideas on how to
achieve this?
Just drill and tap the manifold to accept the sensor, or introduce it into the pipework entering the manifold. The pressure in the manifold is what
is seen at the TBs.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 06:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by madteg
DONT FORGET TO CHANGE THE ROD BOLT TO ARP ONES.
ALREADY DONE
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snapper
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 06:29 AM |
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The megajolt way is to drill all 4 runners after the bodies run 4 pipes to a small plenum box then run 1 feed to the map sensor.
The small plenum 2x2x4" smooths out the individual runner pulses.
The pressure head side of the throttle plates will show negative at idle to low throttle openings
1 bar absolute at WOT until boost comes on when over 1 bar is seen
Back to negative as throttle closes although the main plenum can show positive pressure.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 06:38 AM |
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Thanks for the info, just need to get someone to make the backing plate now
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 06:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Jeff,
Intercooling isn't as bad as you might think in the Phoenix. It is much easier than in a seven as your inlet/outlet hoses can use the space
under the bonnet so you can have a standard FMIC.
I too had worried about it, but saw the factory Red supercharged Phoenix at the Stoneleigh show and they had put an intercooler in this location. So
I copied it.
Temperatures used to get to 60deg under boost (without it), but now they hardly flinch (except at idle) although I am only running 9psi.
I preferred intercooler as it is lighter, cheaper, simpler and doesn't require any additional electrical power. Anyway here are a few photos,
which might explain what I mean.
Mine was a cheap intercooler from e-bay (UNIVERSAL 2.5" FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER 595x175x65mm, from the embarassingly named 2fast2cool, £80)
which is shiny and seems to work, but I am sure you can source a more distinguished item. Before anyone starts, yes I know 2.5inch is larger piping
than necessary/optimal.
Matt
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ldx
pqiv6q4c/Te_zYQbTR8I/AAAAAAAAA54/wnuVLQanCMI/s576/DSC02075.JPG?gl=GB
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1MS
heR37cRg/Te_zVZHXIeI/AAAAAAAAA50/ztuNofC3TeU/s720/DSC02074.JPG?gl=GB
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9lw
tW5yPDtQ/Te_zR2DgbNI/AAAAAAAAA5s/r_4pteWUXWY/s720/DSC02072.JPG?gl=GB
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-txJ
DQkpqnJ8/Te_zcQs6BvI/AAAAAAAAA6E/387Vaz4S5Po/s720/DSC02078.JPG?gl=GB
edited to sort my pictures out.
[Edited on 9/11/11 by matt_gsxr]
That is interesting Matt. I see you have the same Plenum as well, who did your backing plate? What is the ideal diameter pipework for, say, upto
350BHP? And where did you get the ali tube from?
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 06:46 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
The megajolt way is to drill all 4 runners after the bodies run 4 pipes to a small plenum box then run 1 feed to the map sensor.
The small plenum 2x2x4" smooths out the individual runner pulses.
The pressure head side of the throttle plates will show negative at idle to low throttle openings
1 bar absolute at WOT until boost comes on when over 1 bar is seen
Back to negative as throttle closes although the main plenum can show positive pressure.
Do you have a source for the plenum and pipework?
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 06:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by djtom
Depending on cost, I'd be interested in getting a backplate for a gtir plenum too - I've been meaning to make one up for ages but have
never got round to it.
I was thinking something along these lines, but to be done
much much cheaper - £1300 for an new intake system is
My version will use a set of gsxr600 tb's I have knocking around.
I did speak to the guy to see if he could get more made, but he paid over £150 for a backplate and a spacer which I thought was a bit much.
Tom
Well the Jenvey Plenum comes in at around £650 including machining so £150 + £45 for the GTiR plenum is pretty cheap. I was hoping that one of the
many talented guys on here would like the work rather than me tracking down a commercial company.
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will121
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 07:25 AM |
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Don't know if its of any help but seems in a zetec turbo conversion using a rover inlet manifold arrangement is a common modification
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 07:47 AM |
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I already have a set of Jenveys on the car so need to get a plenum for that rather than the engine itself. Nice idea though.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 11:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
That is interesting Matt. I see you have the same Plenum as well, who did your backing plate? What is the ideal diameter pipework for, say, upto
350BHP? And where did you get the ali tube from?
I machined it from tufnol using a router in my shed (see this thread. http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=149161 ) I had some black
tufnol kicking around so it was an easy job.
Can't flak monkey make you up a back-plate, I though he was selling his services and he has done nearly all of what you are doing (okay on a
duratec) I know he has already drawn up the backplate so could easily get those cut.
The inlet piping and intercooler can introduce a pressure drop if too small. If too large then you can get boost lag (not sure whether this is the
same problem on a supercharger). Can't remember about my calcs, but I based it on 250bhp and 2inch was big enough, Flak based his on 300 and
2inch was big enough (although his airflow route is very tidy). I think 2inch is limited to about 500cfm, (about what you need for 350bhp) but then
your flow will be at around mach 0.34 (250mph air flow) and you will probably get a lot of pressure drop especially as the intercooler piping route
will have a few 90's. To be honest I need to look at a book again to revisit this. I would recommend the Graham Bell forced induction book,
this addresses turbos and supercharging. It is a fairly easy read (very practical, not 100% sure of accuracy) and I learned a lot from it.
Probably 2.5inch might make more sense if you are going for 350bhp, not sure.
Matt
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 11:59 AM |
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I was looking at the kits on ebay and I reckon that 2 1/4" would be the answer. Flak (David) is going to sort out the plenum for me. Looks
like this is going to be fun
Just re-read your other post regarding the diameter of the GTiR plenum and the 2.25" would be ideal as it is 57mm and then plenum is 56mm.
I'm going to get an intercooler which has entry and exit on the same side so I can run the pipework down the drivers side which will be out of
the way of the water pipes and the exhaust.
[Edited on 10/11/11 by jeffw]
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 01:28 PM |
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Jeff,
2.25 sounds like a good compromise.
If you have one of those intercoolers where the flow goes through one way and back, then I think they can be slightly more restrictive. If you think
about how the air flows it is obvious why. Probably not a big deal but worth consideration.
The plenum is quite thick material (so my 2.5inch silicon bends fit over snuggly) I don't think you could stretch a 2.25inch to go over it. It
gets a bit complex as silicon bends are measured with the diameter as the i.d. but tube is measured with the diameter as the o.d. nothing too
challenging, but that silicon hose only stretches so much.
Sounds like a nice project.
Matt
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 01:42 PM |
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Ahhh, OK 2.5" sounds better.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 04:17 PM |
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You could start with 2.25 and then expand along the length to 2.5 where it meets the plenum. There is an argument that says you want to slow down the
inlet charge when it gets towards the engine so that the effects of momentum don't dominate its flow behaviour. If momentum did dominate then
all the flow would go into the end cylinder, which would stuff up your fueling (lean at that end, but rich on the others). So expanding gradually
along the length can't do much harm. One solution to this is to have a reasonably voluminous plenum (which the GTiR one is).
I doubt it would make much difference, especially as you are supercharging which is less sensitive than with a turbo.
350bhp sounds like a lot.
Matt
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 04:24 PM |
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350BHP is about what the VAG guys get out of a stage 1 1.8T so in real terms not that much. With 1 bar and the other mods on the engine 340-350 is
about right, the supercharge will make 1.4 Bar which would see it up over 400 but that is probable a step too far.
To start with I'm going for 0.6Bar which should get the engine to 260 ish and then later on we can change the rods and pistons and get over the
300 mark with a different pulley.
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 07:20 PM |
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I meant a lot for a 500kg car designed for about 100bhp doing sprints often with bugger all run-off.
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jeffw
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| posted on 10/11/11 at 07:56 PM |
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But that's the thrill  This is from Goodwood earlier in the year, talking about no run off lol
[Edited on 10/11/11 by jeffw]
[Edited on 10/11/11 by jeffw]
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