Wheels244
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 03:03 PM |
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XE Pressure Relief Valve
Hello All
I bought Ned's project a while ago with an oil pressure problem.
I was gambling on it being the pressure relief valve sticking and finally got around to having a look at it today.
I used the info from posts on here to get it out - and boy was it stuck !!
I used the cut down 4mm allen key trick with a pair of mole grips to get it out and still had to lever the grips with a screw driver  - so I think
it's safe to say it was stuck !
Looking at it I would say it's way past it's sell by date - I'm assuming this one is the SBD plastic one ? Is the original metal
?
 
PRValve
 
PRValve2
You can see metal imbedded in the surface if you look closely so won't be using this one again.
I've run my finger around the bore on the pump and can't feel any scoring, but couldn't inspect properly due to the engine being in
the car - I may end up buying an endoscope after all.
So, do I ;
1) buy a new oil pump and valve ?
2) buy a new metal valve and keep the original pump ?
3) buy an new SBD nylon valve and keep the original pump ?
4) make my own valve and get it PTFE coated - the SBD is £60 which quite frankly is extortionate given the size of it !
The current pump is fitted with the uprated steel oil pump gear - I assume this could be transferred to a new pump ?
I assume the valve is meant to be a sliding fit in the bore ? Once I got this one out it didn't want to go back in !
Any advice or opinion gratefully received, Ben has been a big help already.
Cheers
Rob
[Edited on 10/6/12 by Wheels244]
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laptoprob
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 03:18 PM |
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To be honest if its stuck as bad as you say then a new pump for sure, they arent dear from Auotvaux and you can put the steel gear back in.
The SBD relief valve is very dear but its an industry standard part now in race engines so i went for one just to be safe
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 04:05 PM |
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That is a nylon one i think... Mine was red. Is it plastic or metal? Standard one is metal.
Ben
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Wheels244
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 04:33 PM |
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Yes, red plastic.
It doesn't look particularly well machined - I assume the marks around it are from turning as opposed to the scores along it from where the
metal bits have inbedded.
I can't help thinking I could machine something better, a hell of a lot cheaper. Has anyone got an old standard metal one for me to get accurate
dimensions from ?
Any idea of the cost of a new pump ? I'm leaning towards a new one and transfer the uprated gear over.
What are they like to fit ?
Thanks
Rob
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 04:51 PM |
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Easy enough to fit, although it means taking the cambelt off and the rediculously tight crank bolt !!!
If its plastic its an expensive nylon one, although i've not heard of them getting in that sort of state?
I've got a spare pump (as per email) although not sure if its early or late. Can get the release valve out of it tho and send it to you....
Ben
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Wheels244
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 05:06 PM |
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Thanks Ben
If you could post me the standard one that would be great.
If I do decide to machine one, I will do you one as well if you like by way of thanks.
I've looked on the Autovax website, but it doesn't list a pump under the XE section - could someone point me to the right bit please.
I was going to change the cambelt anyway for piece of mind - it's only been used on a rolling road session but it is about 5 years old - unless
you think it would be ok to continue use - do they get affected by age ?
I've just bought a mains electric impact gun 450Nm torque, nearly twice that of my battery one, so the crankbolt will be a good test for it.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 06:02 PM |
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I'll dig out this week and get it off to you Rob....
Ben
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perksy
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 06:18 PM |
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If you phone Autovaux they will sort you a pump out, had quite abit off them over the years and they've always been very good
The oil pressure releif valve bore of the oil pump tends to score up with crud and is always worth checking
This is the reason its worth making sure the inside of the sump is ultra clean
Check the condition of the cam belt pulleys if replacing the belt, After 5 years its worth changing the belt
Worth considering going 'solid' non adjustable pulleys and tensioning the belt off the water pump as it has been known for the spring on
the cam belt tensioner pulley to break
The crank pulley bolt is famous for being tight 
Worth fitting a new bolt imho
My old one showing the 'solid' pulley layout and belt tensioned off the water pump
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 06:28 PM |
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Robs got an early engine do should already have the metal tensioners etc.
Ben
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stevegough
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 07:31 PM |
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Having had a lot of problem along these lines, tried the nylon valve, it also sticks! Eventually bought a new pump, with standard valve (steel) and
never had any problems since. Replace your pump. Forget the stupid nylon valve. Don't forget to check your pick up pipe gauze isn't
holed - small particles in the oil jam the pressure relief valve.
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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Wheels244
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 08:33 PM |
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Thanks Perksy
Ned had a solid eccentric tensioner made and the rest is steel so should be ok.
Pulleys should be fine - vernier and only ever run properly on a days dyno session so in effect they're still new.
 
Engine
What's the correct tension to put on the new belt ?
I'll get a new crankshaft bolt as well.
I will order a new pump tomorrow, does it come complete with valve, spring etc or do they have to be ordered separate ?
I assume it's a sump off job to access the pick up pipe to the back of the pump ?
Any other top tips for fitting - a blow by blow account would be useful if anyones got one ?
Steve - I'll probably use the standard valve that comes with the pump initially, but I'll look at the one Ben is sending me and may
consider machining my own nylon one - but to a better standard ( I don't mean that to sound big headed ).
Will Autovaux be a able to ID my engine from the engine number and provide proof of for the IVA ?
Can you guess I've not played with a Red Top before
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perksy
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 08:48 PM |
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Cam belt tension is 90 degrees on longest run with moderate finger & thumb force or 45 degrees with moderate force between the camshaft pulleys
New pump will come complete
Not sure Autovaux will be able to help with the engine dating letter, that's usually Vauxhall and they'll charge you for that
Sump off to check the oil pick up
Make sure you fit the 'O' ring on the mating face where the oil pick up bolts to body of the oil pump
Give the inside of the sump a real good clean
New sump gasket from Autovaux
Loads of info on the XE including torque wrench settings on the SBD wexsite
[Edited on 10/6/12 by perksy]
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stevegough
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| posted on 10/6/12 at 09:22 PM |
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Engine date is on side of the engine, but that's probably not sufficient for IVA - I had a photocopy of the V5 from the donor for mine.
Look at the bottom LHS of your engine - the date of cast (6 digits mine was 05 06 90) - is just below the three engine mount bolts. You can almost
make it out in this pic....
Fitting a new pump pretty much requires the sump to be removed anyway. Removing the sprocket bolt isn't easy, but I had more of a problem
removing the spacer behind it.
[Edited on 10/6/12 by stevegough]
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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Wheels244
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| posted on 11/6/12 at 10:20 PM |
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I don't suppose you've still got the photocopy have you Steve 
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stevegough
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| posted on 12/6/12 at 06:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
I don't suppose you've still got the photocopy have you Steve
I think so, but its not a lot of use to you as the engine number would have to match!!
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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Wheels244
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| posted on 12/6/12 at 07:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevegough
quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
I don't suppose you've still got the photocopy have you Steve
I think so, but its not a lot of use to you as the engine number would have to match!!
Good point - I thought about that after I'd posted.
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Wheels244
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 06:16 AM |
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I'm hoping - work permitting - to get the pump ordered today.
When fitting, does it require packing with Vaseline to assist with initial priming ? Or is there another method for this style of pump?
Or will it self prime ?
Order list:
Oil pump complete with new valve
Pump gasket
New crank bolt
Do I need a new O ring for the pick up tube ?
It's got a rubber sump gasket fitted - what's the opinion on this being reused ?
What's the best oil to use bearing in mind it's had a full engine rebuild and hasn't been used other than on the rollers for a set
up day ?
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laptoprob
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 06:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Wheels244
I'm hoping - work permitting - to get the pump ordered today.
When fitting, does it require packing with Vaseline to assist with initial priming ? Or is there another method for this style of pump?
Or will it self prime ?
Order list:
Oil pump complete with new valve
Pump gasket
New crank bolt
Do I need a new O ring for the pick up tube ?
It's got a rubber sump gasket fitted - what's the opinion on this being reused ?
What's the best oil to use bearing in mind it's had a full engine rebuild and hasn't been used other than on the rollers for a set
up day ?
Vaseline is fine.
Yes change the o-ring just for the sake of it.
Rubber gasket will go again if it doesnt look distorted anywhere.
If it s had a rolling road setup then its fine to go with a good 10w60(millers or equiv) now.
Good luck with it all.
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Wheels244
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 03:24 PM |
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Well, rang Autovaux to order the bits and as said previously they were very helpful.
But it wasn't good news
I gave Craig, the guy I dealt with my engine number and he told me it was an early engine - and they don't have the oil pumps for them anymore,
well they do have one make 'Autopumps' which he said he wouldn't sleep at night if he knew it was going into a tuned engine -
refreshingly honest !
He said the 'Autopump' pump would be ok for a standard engine but this doesn't solve my problem of a replacement pump.
Price for the other bits for anyone looking
Oil pump Gasket = £2.87
Crank Bolt = £8.88
Oil pump O ring = £10.93 ( seems expensive for an O ring )
Part number for Oil Pump = 90325075
They did have an OE pump for a later engine - at £250
Any ideas ?
Anyone got a known decent one for sale ?
Buy or make a new relief valve and use existing pump ?
Cheers
Rob
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nige
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 04:02 PM |
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try these always been good for me
dont see a match for your part no
http://www.vauxhall-car-parts.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Calibra_Oil_Pumps___Oil_Sumps.html
p.s
slightly off topic , and promted by the block pic earlier in thread
why if like me you need proof of engine age do we have to pay vauxhall £60
if the age is cast in the block
when you start this journey
you think it will be done in " no " time but then " no " turns into a " bloody " long time
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Wheels244
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 04:07 PM |
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Just spoke to SBD - again very helpful.
Apparently the red plastic valve that I took out must be a copy - he said theirs are white nylon.
They can supply OE pump for £228 + Vat
I really would like an engine attached to it for that money
Has anyone dry sumped one and if so was it difficult ? reliable ? expensive ?
Cheers
Rob
[Edited on 15/6/12 by Wheels244]
[Edited on 15/6/12 by Wheels244]
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perksy
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 04:27 PM |
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Gawd the standard pumps have gone up
There are others out there to supply the oil pump, so a search on Google might be a way forward
QED are another worth contacting and it might be worth trying the local engine builders/re-con engine suppliers
*If* this is going to be a good spec' XE and you will doing some track days then Dry sumping is a very good insurance policy
It ain't cheap though and you'll be over a grand before you know it (had the SBD (Pace) Dry sump set-up on mine)
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 04:39 PM |
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Rob, I'll check in the morning with Vauxhall as I have trade club with them and get healthy discounts
Ben
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Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
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Wheels244
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 04:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
Rob, I'll check in the morning with Vauxhall as I have trade club with them and get healthy discounts
Great stuff - thanks Ben.
That might make it a bit more cost effective.
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 15/6/12 at 04:58 PM |
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Unfortunately not.... More expensive.
BUT............
You can fit a late pump which has better internals etc. because you haven't got a backing plate.
You can also get a OE replacement one off eBay (seller:trechii) who I used for most of the bits for mine. Early one is £60 odd.
Ben
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Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
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