craig1410
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| posted on 14/7/13 at 05:24 PM |
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Urgent - Seat Altea won't start. Suggestions?
Hi guys,
On holiday in Yorkshire and currently stuck in Malton with Altea 1.6 petrol which is cranking but won't start. Did this a couple of days ago
then started okay again. Seems to be intermittent electrical but might be fuel pump. No smell of petrol from exhaust so not over fuelling I
don't think. Engine currently hott so not old start prob. Not got any tools either which doesn't help...
Ideas?
Craig.
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theprisioner
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| posted on 14/7/13 at 05:40 PM |
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Does it have a PATS type LED, the coding on that can tell you quite a lot (look up the codes on the web).
The obvious to check is petrol (take a plug out and smell it), check the fuel pump makes a noise, Spark leave a plug out, connect body to earth and
check for spark (not in bright sunlight), compression (are the valves opening and closing (compression tester if you can get one, cork in the plug
hole if not).
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http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/
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craig1410
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| posted on 14/7/13 at 06:05 PM |
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Hi,
Unfortunately I don't have any tools so can't take plugs out. I can't get at the fuel pump either as it's under the rear seat
and I've got no tools. My best guess is that the fuel pump isn't pumping. It did this after a long hot journey on Friday night and then
spontaneously started working again later.
Anyway, I've called the AA after buying an 'already broken down' membership. Should be here in next 30 mins. Hopefully just a bad
connection somewhere or a sticky fuel pump.
Cheers
Craig.
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JAMSTER
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| posted on 14/7/13 at 06:17 PM |
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cam sensor or crank sensor???
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 14/7/13 at 06:21 PM |
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Sucks.. my friends A3 has broken down outside my house. Luckily he's got recovery, but is still having to wait 3 hours for them to come.
Ben
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craig1410
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| posted on 14/7/13 at 07:00 PM |
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AA man on site. No voltage on fuel rail. Trying to trace.
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pmc_3
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| posted on 14/7/13 at 09:45 PM |
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My guess was going to be fuel pump relay, not sure this would stop voltage to the injection rail though
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craig1410
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 12:33 PM |
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Got it sorted. Sorry for delay updating but phone coverage here very patchy. It was a bad 167 relay in engine bay fuse box. This is listed as an
engine control relay but seems to be separate from ECU relay. I need to get a new one as this one is intermittent still. Anyway, got us going
again. Actually it was me that found the problem but that's another story. Got to go.
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craig1410
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| posted on 20/7/13 at 04:52 PM |
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Hmm...
Not so sure that it is the relay which is faulty after all. I just broke down about 300 yds from home and used the opportunity to try bypassing the
relay with a couple of spade connectors. Didn't make any difference. To cut a long story short I got it going by bypassing from a spare 12V
spade receptacle in the fuse box to the fuel injector fuse which had zero volts (Fuse 32 in the engine comp't). This made the fuel pump start
running and I was then able to start the car from the key. So it looks like it is the feed to the 167 relay not the relay itself despite the fact that
rattling the 167 relay on a couple of occasions has successfully started the car...
So, what I need now is a wiring diagram of the Altea 1.6 petrol electrics, specifically around the fuel pump and injectors area so I can figure out
where the break is. Does anyone happen to have such a diagram? I would have bought an Altea Haynes manual but I don't think Haynes made one as
I've tried in a few Halfords shops to get one over the years and no joy. I do have the SEAT DVD of workshop reference stuff but can't
locate it right now...
I'm pretty sure I do have a bad connection somewhere so I'll see if I can figure out where. In the meantime if anyone has a schematic then
I'd be obliged if you could forward the relevant page(s).
Oh well, at least it didn't break down on the motorway on the way home from Yorkshire and it's a lovely evening to crack open a beer while
I try to figure it out. I wonder if I'll find the problem before I run out of beer... 
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perksy
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| posted on 20/7/13 at 07:54 PM |
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Not something easy like corrosion on the relay connection or dodgy connection behind the relay 'socket' by any chance ?
Mate had a similar issue on a Vauxhall once and a new relay sorted it.
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craig1410
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| posted on 20/7/13 at 09:20 PM |
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Thanks for the suggestion but the relay terminals are all pristine. One of the first things I did was remove and reseat all the fuses and relays and I
have also gone round them with a multimeter checking for any voltage differences across fuses but nothing.
I've called it quits for tonight - I'll have another go in the morning and see if I can figure it out. I need to take another look at the
167 relay as it did have a resistor inside it and although I'm pretty sure it was just in series with the energising coil, I'll double
check in case it is some sort of feedback mechanism to the control unit. The 167 relay is listed as the power supply relay for the fuel control unit
but it also seems to be controlled by the control unit which is a bit odd (chicken and egg sort of thing). When I checked the voltage on the 167 relay
armature it was 12V on one side (as expected - comes from a main battery feed) and 4V on the side which goes back to the control unit. My thoughts are
that maybe earlier when I removed the relay and bypassed the terminal 30-87 circuit with a piece of wire, that may have robbed the control unit of
some feedback signal. That might have given me the false impression that the relay wasn't faulty.
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craig1410
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| posted on 21/7/13 at 03:15 PM |
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Final update (hopefully) in case anyone else has a similar problem in future...
I confirmed that the relay is in fact at fault by taking the plastic housing off and manually closing the contacts with a rubber band while cranking
the car. It fired up normally. So it seems that the SIMOS fuel control unit requires the relay to be in place, presumably as it senses the presence of
the relay armature coil and/or the 47ohm parallel resistor. So even if you bypass the relay main contacts with a couple of spade connectors and some
wire, it won't fire up.
I then took the relay into the house to have a closer look at it and found that the very fine armature coil wire was broken at one end, probably due
to vibration over time. This was very difficult to see even with a magnifier. I tried to repair this by catching the broken end and unwinding it a
turn and resoldering but it was not possible.
I have already ordered a new relay from volksbits.co.uk but as a temporary measure I just got a generic relay from Halfords
(http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_756415_langId_-1_categoryId_255229) and used the
base of the old broken relay with the armature and contacts removed with wires soldered on, leading to crimped spade connectors on the Halfords relay.
Importantly I retained the 47ohm resistor in the original base. Fortunately the old relay contacts were really easy to solder to and should be secure
but I've wrapped it all up in heat-proof Kapton tape just to be sure. There is plenty of space inside the fuse box for the new relay to just lie
on its side and I've secured it with a rubber band to a neighbouring relay.
So, car running fine now with this temporary fix and will fit the new relay when it arrives.
Thanks,
Craig.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/7/13 at 07:05 PM |
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Hondas used to suffer problems with fatigue in the soldered joints on the fuel/ignition relay it caused an awful lot of head scratching because it
would occur at random times, sometimes just slamming the bonnet down would jar the connection and the car would start.
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― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
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