jps
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 09:41 AM |
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'Easy outs'?
Hit a problem this weekend. Bought a 2nd hand steering wheel & boss a few weeks ago from someone on here.
Tried to remove it from the boss this weekend - 6 flat head bolts - with allen key fitting.
3 came out fairly easy, but the other 3 - the allen key just rounded out the head of the bolt...
I've had a quick look on-line for what I think used to be called 'Easy Outs' eg:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_216735_langId_-1_categoryId_165572
But they mostly get really bad reviews. I am wondering if there is something better to use?
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r1_pete
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 09:46 AM |
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No don't use easy outs, they will break off then you are left with a hardened tool stuck in there which can't be drilled.
Try cutting a screwdriver slot with a small dremmel disc.
Or
Drill the head of the screw and hope there is enough protruding when the parts are separated to get hold of the remains with pliers.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 09:48 AM |
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Ive never been able to get screw extractors to work, but thats usually because its down to a rusted bolt/nut, thats caused the issue, not just a
small, soft head thats lost its key. I would try using a torx bit and hammering it in to the duff head.
Mistral Motorsport
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 09:51 AM |
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100% agree don't even consider easyouts, you could try an anti-clockwise drill screw remover in an slow speed power screw driver.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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jps
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 10:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
100% agree don't even consider easyouts, you could try an anti-clockwise drill screw remover in an slow speed power screw driver.
Demonstrating my thickness here - what is a 'drill screw remover' that isn't an 'easy-out'? I thought
'easy-out' was a general name for all the things that I would otherwise describe as a 'drill screw remover'?
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nick205
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 10:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Ive never been able to get screw extractors to work, but thats usually because its down to a rusted bolt/nut, thats caused the issue, not just a
small, soft head thats lost its key. I would try using a torx bit and hammering it in to the duff head.
This has worked well for me before with rounded hex head bolts. If you can, use a separate Torx screw driver bit rather than a key type tool. Hammer
the bit nice and square, then you can use the screw driver (or ratchet handle) to apply the force. A dose of penetrating oil before hand never goes
amiss either.
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dhutch
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 10:31 AM |
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You can get left hand drills, as said, which work.
Extractors like everything else have there place, if the heads come of through overloading for instance, they can work really well. I have even
removed threads using a scribe to just tickle it round, but if its corroded to buggery (and mild steel into ali could well be) and you have malled the
head off trying to remove it, and thread extractor will get you no where.
Bit late now, but good allen driving is worth its weight in gold as well.
Daniel
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 10:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Ive never been able to get screw extractors to work, but thats usually because its down to a rusted bolt/nut, thats caused the issue, not just a
small, soft head thats lost its key. I would try using a torx bit and hammering it in to the duff head.
This has worked well for me before with rounded hex head bolts. If you can, use a separate Torx screw driver bit rather than a key type tool. Hammer
the bit nice and square, then you can use the screw driver (or ratchet handle) to apply the force. A dose of penetrating oil before hand never goes
amiss either.
+1
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 11:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
100% agree don't even consider easyouts, you could try an anti-clockwise drill screw remover in an slow speed power screw driver.
Demonstrating my thickness here - what is a 'drill screw remover' that isn't an 'easy-out'? I thought
'easy-out' was a general name for all the things that I would otherwise describe as a 'drill screw remover'?
BT is referring to special drill bits with the cutting edge reversed so you drive them anti-clockwise. This means apply a loosening torque to the
fastener as it drills in.
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sdh2903
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 11:02 AM |
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Easy outs are great if decent quality (ie not laser ones) ones are used correctly. We use them all the time at work and these ones are the best by
far:
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=&item_ID=635483&group_ID=675457&store=&dir=catalog
Have used these on allsorts and the set I have are currently over 7 years old. ive only ever had one failure 'in hole' in a fuel tank
panel on a boeing 757 where the previous installer had not only ridiculously over torqued it but damaged the head of the screw in the process.
You can still get these through a snap on man in a van but they don't seem to be available online.
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pewe
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 11:20 AM |
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General rule of thumb -
If it's snapped off - Easy-out,
If it's seized in (and snapped off) you're fooked!
HTH.
Cheers, Pewe10 
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 11:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jps
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
100% agree don't even consider easyouts, you could try an anti-clockwise drill screw remover in an slow speed power screw driver.
Demonstrating my thickness here - what is a 'drill screw remover' that isn't an 'easy-out'? I thought
'easy-out' was a general name for all the things that I would otherwise describe as a 'drill screw remover'?
See link -- they are more like a left handed centre drill I got mine from Lidl
Ebay link
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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mookaloid
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 12:09 PM |
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They should change the name of 'Easy outs' to 'Not in fact easy but actually ten times more difficult to remove when the tool breaks
in the stud ....... outs' or something similar
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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rick1962uk
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 12:23 PM |
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Stop dont Drill go to your snap on van they do some great easy outs with flat heads that will undo rounded allen bolts and posse screws if you was
closer you could have popped over and i would have done it for you
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sdh2903
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 12:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
They should change the name of 'Easy outs' to 'Not in fact easy but actually ten times more difficult to remove when the tool breaks
in the stud ....... outs' or something similar
Only if you use cheapo ones in the incorrect manner.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 12:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
They should change the name of 'Easy outs' to 'Not in fact easy but actually ten times more difficult to remove when the tool breaks
in the stud ....... outs' or something similar
Only if you use cheapo ones in the incorrect manner.
I think I've just identified a training need 
Are you available to do a guide on this as the question seems to pop up a lot.
Cheers
Mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 01:27 PM |
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Easyouts just need the correct prep, which is drilling to the right dimensions and attempting to free the sheared off part. If you don't prep it
well it'll snap off and bite you.
Never failed to get a screw out with an easyout. That said, if the head is intact I would try other options first until you've no others left
but the easyout.
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jps
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 01:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
if the head is intact I would try other options first until you've no others
Any specifically? The idea of hammering a Torx bit into the hole is appealing to me...
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sdh2903
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 03:17 PM |
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With a rounded allen socket the best and easiest option is to hammer in the next size up hex bit or even better a torx bit as previously stated, if
you have any friction compound such as ezy grip then a drop in the hole before you hammer in will help.
With easy outs, common sense applies, if the sheared off bit looks like its been with the titanic and well seized in then don't bother.
Also dont bother with cheapo easy outs off ebay, cheap price = cheap metal it will end badly. Get some decent ones, drill the hole accurately and
install the easy out with one sharp hammer blow, when winding it out any sign of the easy out deforming then stop, if you can go to the next size up
easy out try that, if not look for a new method.
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 04:18 PM |
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quote:
If you can, use a separate Torx screw driver bit rather than a key type tool. Hammer the bit nice and square, then you can use the screw
driver (or ratchet handle) to apply the force.
better to use a 'T' bar than a ratchet, so the force is axial
worst case is weld a bar to the bolt to turn it.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 04:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
better to use a 'T' bar than a ratchet, so the force is axial
worst case is weld a bar to the bolt to turn it.
Assuming this is likely an m4 bolt with a 7-8mm head, I doubt theres much to weld to, and its probably ally.
Mistral Motorsport
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renetom
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 05:06 PM |
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Why try the hardest first
Simply grind the heads off if they are not countersunk.
separate the 2 pieces & there should be enough thread left
to get a hold of with mole grips, plenty of wd40 first, probably come out by hand.
easy job done.
[Edited on 15/7/13 by renetom]
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Peteff
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 08:28 PM |
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What kind of boss is it with the thread into the metal ? All the ones I have had have had a flange with a hole and a nut on the back. If the Allen
head is flat get a socket fitting key to knock into the hole or as suggested a slightly larger Torx then use a pin punch or centre pop next to the
flat on the screw head and hit it with a hammer to peen the edge over, knock your key in firmly and then try turning it.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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adithorp
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| posted on 15/7/13 at 08:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by jps
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
100% agree don't even consider easyouts, you could try an anti-clockwise drill screw remover in an slow speed power screw driver.
Demonstrating my thickness here - what is a 'drill screw remover' that isn't an 'easy-out'? I thought
'easy-out' was a general name for all the things that I would otherwise describe as a 'drill screw remover'?
See link -- they are more like a left handed centre drill I got mine from Lidl
Ebay link
...and currently available in Aldi.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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jps
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| posted on 16/7/13 at 06:58 AM |
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The boss is cast/machined by the looks of it - certainly no access to the other side of the bolt at the moment...
The bolt itself is countersunk - so sits flush.
I'm assuming it's aluminium given the way it crumbled in the face of my allen key...
Yes - it's probably M4 and the head is roughly 8mm across.
I think i'll try the Torx approach before anything else.
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