peter030371
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 01:53 PM |
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DIY start/stop button
Not sure if this should go in Engine, Electrics or Fuel Injection/ EFI so I picked the middle one 
I am building a Raw Striker and decided I didn't want an ignition key....a starter button is easy but for a road car you still need a key for a
security sensible way of turning the '12V igntion' circuit on to the aftermarket ECU (Omex 600 in my case).
So as I own and run an electronics design and assembly business I thought I should come up with something better!
I have a QR steering wheel with electrics feed down the center of the column. My steering wheel is going to be my 'key' and my start
button will be my start and stop button 
The circuit is quite simple. When the steering wheel is connected a signal goes to my control box and the car is 'live' ready to start.
Press and hold the start button and the control box will turn on the '12V ignition' circuit and turn over the started motor.
Press the start button again (for at least 1/2 second) and the '12V ignition' circuit turns off and the engine stops as normal. Take the
steering wheel off and the car is now 'dead' unless you know how I wired it up.
I have the resources to do all this but before I do it has anyone seen a controller before that can do this? I get no joy reinventing the wheel!
If I make myself one does anyone else want one? No idea what the price will be but at this stage but we design and build lots of automotive stuff and
this is a very simple circuit and will all be to 'automotive spec'. You don't have to use the steering wheel key (that's just
me being a tart) but can use the controller to offer start/stop functionality 
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loggyboy
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 02:02 PM |
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Almost exactly what I was thinking of doing for my Striker. All though it wasnt the steering wheel principle, I have a Clifford virtual key imboliser
so want to used the proximity activation of that to trigger/activate my starter button. I also wanted it to 'activate' the led lighting of
that switch so i know its active.
I havent designed any of the electronics for it so would be very pleased if someone could design the circuit even if it had to be purchased. Id be
happy to construct the module myself, but a diagram and pick list would be a good idea.
Beaing in mind this would also need to be post IVA as that will need a key to pass IIRC. (it demands a key AND an imobilser.)
If you are in the electonics bussniess Im also interested in a circuit design for a push button indcator/hazard control module. One has been
discussed and built on here before by short term poster but ir never went any further. And again, it was something I wanted to build myself, but
would struggle to design the circuit without lots of googling and trial an error.
[Edited on 10-4-14 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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peter030371
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 02:20 PM |
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Not sure I would supply it in kit form....95% of it would be surface mount so easier to assemble with the right kit at work than DIY in the oven at
home 
What do you want the push button indicator module to do?
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loggyboy
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 02:30 PM |
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Ooo now your asking....
Here is something I jotted down last year:
3 push to make Switches (Left(a), right(B) & (Hazard)
2 Bulb/LED circuits (left indicators (X) & right indiocators (Y)
Basic Function
Switch A must Set & Reset circuit X
Switch B must Set & Reset circuit Y
Switch C must set & reset both Circuit X & Y
Switch A must reset circuit Y
Switch B must reset circuit X
Then if possible the extra bonus would be a Lane change fucntion so:
Quick set press of A performs short term output of Circuit X
Quick set press of B performs short term output of Circuit Y
(between approx 2 sec and 10sec) of the short term output.
Longer press of A performs permanent (until reset) output of Circuit X
Longer press of B performs permanent (until reset) output of Circuit Y
Pot to vary time (between approx 0.1 sec and 3sec) of the quick/long press.
I just like the idea of building things even if I cant design them, so if it could be made with regular components, even if made on a larger CB that
would be huge bonus for me.
[Edited on 10-4-14 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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peter030371
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 02:51 PM |
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OK, that's sort of what I thought you meant
I will think about it. The problem with controlling the hazard lights is it has to be powered when the ignition is off to pass the MOT (let alone the
IVA). If this thing is permanently powered then suddenly it needs to be very low powered circuit or you will end up with a flat battery every other
weekend when you go to get the toy car out the garaged 
Some of the automotive standard parts I would use are surface mount only...less and less stuff is now available for 'normal' assembly
methods so DIY may not be an option no matter how much you want to.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 03:54 PM |
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Good point on the hazards. Keep us updated on how you get on on either module!
Mistral Motorsport
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owelly
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 05:44 PM |
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I used a cheapy proximity sensor kit from Maplins. ISTR it was about £6 in the sale. I mounted the gubbins behind the drivers seat next to my fuel
tank/pumps. It activated the live feeds to the ECU as long as the proxy card was close by. I kept it my back pocket so as soon as I sat in the car,
the ignition came on. I only removed it because I poured fuel over it and it didn't like it....
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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bi22le
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 08:41 PM |
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I have something similar on my striker. As a competent auto electrcian and electronic savy I used something similar to the Clifford Virtual Key. I
attached it to the red isolator key and the induction loop is right where the isolator key is. I put the ket in, flip the missile launch toggle switch
to turn on ignition and press a start button. The isolator key to any normal eye is the ignition key.
Regarding you idea of the steering wheel. One thought you may want to ponder is something that I do often. I have no garage so start my car and leave
it to warm up. As it has no steering wheel nobody can jump in it while its on my drive (or outside a pub, friends house, track day) and drive off.
Something you will not be able to do.
Regarding the hazard switch problem. This is simple. run your normal hazard light system and the two button indicator with cancellation function.
Makes the design easier and low draw current for haxard switch.
Talking of Clifford products (and not meaning to high jack) did anyone have the pleasure of owning a tin top with Intellistart? I fitted one to my
brothers car (FTO) and it was the b*ll/cks!
Frosty morning? while in bed, press the button on your alarm fob and the car starts its self!! Nice warm, defrosted and totally secure car ready to
hop in regardless of how cold it was.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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peter030371
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 09:03 PM |
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I looked at these sort of things but I don't want an ignition switch hence the start button will also be the stop button. The remote start is
great for a normal car but I also leave my cars in gear as my driveway has a steep slope
Never warmed my old Striker up with the steering wheel off and I have had that since 1995 so not the way I plan to ever use it
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Mr C
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| posted on 10/4/14 at 09:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Ooo now your asking....
Here is something I jotted down last year:
3 push to make Switches (Left(a), right(B) & (Hazard)
2 Bulb/LED circuits (left indicators (X) & right indiocators (Y)
Basic Function
Switch A must Set & Reset circuit X
Switch B must Set & Reset circuit Y
Switch C must set & reset both Circuit X & Y
Switch A must reset circuit Y
Switch B must reset circuit X
Then if possible the extra bonus would be a Lane change fucntion so:
Quick set press of A performs short term output of Circuit X
Quick set press of B performs short term output of Circuit Y
(between approx 2 sec and 10sec) of the short term output.
Longer press of A performs permanent (until reset) output of Circuit X
Longer press of B performs permanent (until reset) output of Circuit Y
Pot to vary time (between approx 0.1 sec and 3sec) of the quick/long press.
I just like the idea of building things even if I cant design them, so if it could be made with regular components, even if made on a larger CB that
would be huge bonus for me.
[Edited on 10-4-14 by loggyboy]
Modules that do as you describe are availble off the shelf via the states. I bought one to fit my V-Storm but didn't get round to it in the end
and sold it with the car. Easy enough to wire in using mommentary push buttons.
http://www.signaldynamics.com/self-canceling-turn-signal-module/
Girl walks into a bar and asks for a double entendre, so the barman gave her one
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peter030371
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| posted on 11/4/14 at 08:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr C
Modules that do as you describe are availble off the shelf via the states. I bought one to fit my V-Storm but didn't get round to it in the end
and sold it with the car. Easy enough to wire in using mommentary push buttons.
http://www.signaldynamics.com/self-canceling-turn-signal-module/
I have seen things like that before but the hazard lights would not pass the MOT (you need a separate hazard switch plus the permanent power thing).
You could try one of these modules and a 'normal' hazard circuit but the hazard circuit could damage/ break/ interfere with the module
Self canceling is a nice option but I will only do it after a short 'lane change' press or with a column mounted sensor i.e. proper self
canceling.
I will start drawing up the stop/ start circuit and see how easy it will be to add the indicator/ hazard control
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loggyboy
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| posted on 11/4/14 at 09:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr C
Modules that do as you describe are availble off the shelf via the states. I bought one to fit my V-Storm but didn't get round to it in the end
and sold it with the car. Easy enough to wire in using mommentary push buttons.
http://www.signaldynamics.com/self-canceling-turn-signal-module/
BARGAIN!!!
...not
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
Talking of Clifford products (and not meaning to high jack) did anyone have the pleasure of owning a tin top with Intellistart? I fitted one to my
brothers car (FTO) and it was the b*ll/cks!
Frosty morning? while in bed, press the button on your alarm fob and the car starts its self!! Nice warm, defrosted and totally secure car ready to
hop in regardless of how cold it was.
I wanted it added to my 3i cabrio in the 2000s when Cliffords were the default alarm for robbable 90s cars. Sadly the intelistart invalidated the
thatcham approval i needed so I couldnt have it.
Mistral Motorsport
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The Black Flash
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| posted on 11/4/14 at 02:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Beaing in mind this would also need to be post IVA as that will need a key to pass IIRC. (it demands a key AND an imobilser.)
Not so...it requires EITHER a mechanical OR electronic form of security. A steering lock and key are not required if you have an immobiliser.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 11/4/14 at 02:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by The Black Flash
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Beaing in mind this would also need to be post IVA as that will need a key to pass IIRC. (it demands a key AND an imobilser.)
Not so...it requires EITHER a mechanical OR electronic form of security. A steering lock and key are not required if you have an immobiliser.
A key is required in addition to a mechanical or electrical immobiliser. If you dont have a steering lock, you need the electonic immobilser, but you
still need a key.
Check, in addition to the normal “ignition” switch, that the vehicle is permanently fitted with an anti-theft device or an electronic immobiliser
that can be activated to prevent the vehicle being driven or moved under its own power.
In the glossary:
Ignition Switch
A key operated switch normally used to start the engine.
[Edited on 11-4-14 by loggyboy]
Mistral Motorsport
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daveb666
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| posted on 11/4/14 at 03:46 PM |
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Just a query really - the chaps that have the proximity setup obviously have removed the chance of their car being stolen - but if you now don't
have an ignition key, presumably you also have no steering lock. Not worried about the car simply being pushed/towed onto a trailer?
2007bc Photography - Commercial and Wedding Photographer based in West Yorkshire
http://www.2007bc.co.uk / http://www.huddersfieldcommercialphotographer.co.uk
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The Black Flash
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| posted on 14/4/14 at 09:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by The Black Flash
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Beaing in mind this would also need to be post IVA as that will need a key to pass IIRC. (it demands a key AND an imobilser.)
Not so...it requires EITHER a mechanical OR electronic form of security. A steering lock and key are not required if you have an immobiliser.
A key is required in addition to a mechanical or electrical immobiliser. If you dont have a steering lock, you need the electonic immobilser, but you
still need a key.
Check, in addition to the normal “ignition” switch, that the vehicle is permanently fitted with an anti-theft device or an electronic immobiliser
that can be activated to prevent the vehicle being driven or moved under its own power.
In the glossary:
Ignition Switch
A key operated switch normally used to start the engine.
[Edited on 11-4-14 by loggyboy]
Fair catch, I'd never seen the glossary. My testers didn't care about a key though.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 14/4/14 at 09:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daveb666
Just a query really - the chaps that have the proximity setup obviously have removed the chance of their car being stolen - but if you now don't
have an ignition key, presumably you also have no steering lock. Not worried about the car simply being pushed/towed onto a trailer?
A theif that determined wouldnt let a steering lock stop them. Especially a 20yr old ford one.
Mistral Motorsport
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