russbost
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 09:44 AM |
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Being unfairly "Flamed" - Minor rant
As many of you on here know, I pride myself & Furore Products, Furore Cars with giving good service at a low price, I've just had a customer
leave an entirely unfair review of us on the Rhocar site - I am adding a link as we have nothing to hide here
Link
So, he hasn't read the information on the website b4 ordering, he has received EXACTLY what he ordered & paid for & his only actual
gripe is that we have made the hoses inaccurately to the tune of 1.25% inaccuracy - I will be very surprised if he can find much else on his Robin
Hood made to that degree of accuracy!!! He has included a reply from us in his "name & shame"- however he hasn't included the
second email where we have offered to replace a hose if that's what he wants, I am including our second reply, & his answer below
Hi Marcus
I'm sorry you are not happy with the product, however I would point out that had you bought those same hoses from HEL you would have paid a LOT
more just to get a "free" nut!
We do specify the tolerance on the website, perhaps we should make it more prominent, it's possible you didn't see it as I believe you
came to us from a link on another site. However in 7 years of making & supplying hoses we have never had this issue before, if there is any
question that the shorter hose would not be safe for use on the car then please return it to us for replacement, we can do our best to make it 5mm
"long" so it would match the other hose perfectly.
With regard to the nut, I could equally well point out that nowhere do we say, "supplied with nut" - whereas, for instance we do say on
the banjo fittings, "copper washers supplied FOC" - when taking phone orders we ask the customer if they want nuts for the bulkheads at
£1ea & I would say around 4 out of 5 prefer to use the original nuts they have.
I've seen your review of ourselves on the Rhocar site & I believe it is totally unfair, perhaps you would be kind enough to actually put a
copy of our response to you on the site as well as I feel that might supply a more accurate overall picture. We have NEVER before had a poor review
from anyone, in fact if you look at the locostbuilders site there are glowing reviews from many satisfied customers. You might at least have allowed
us the opportunity of putting things right before "dissing" our good reputation in public!
Our aim is to satsify our customers & keep them happy, so, if you are unhappy then please let us do something to make that right.
Assuring you of our best attention at all times.
Regards Russ
& his reply to the above
Hi Russell.
I sent you a message asking about the discrepancy in length and lack of fixing nut.
You told me it's well within your tolerance and I should have asked for a nut.no offer to sort the issue out
When dealing with hel I simply thought I got better serving and the hoses simply felt better.money doesn't matter if the products right.
You never offered to put it right just simply why it was like it was .
Sorry if this isn't to your liking.
I'll fit them to my car when it's fixed and hopefully should be ok.
I'll stick to using who I know and trust next time
Marcus
So we offer to pretty much do anything we can to satisfy his "issue" & he responds by continuing to "diss" us in public,
but he's now quite happy to fit these hoses to his car! WTF! He says the HEL hoses "simply felt better" - well, it's amazing
what psychological things are going on when you pay more for the same product, because ALL our hoses, unions, fittings & equipment are HEL
product, absolutely identical to anything they sell direct - the only difference is that they add a heat shrunk sleeve to each ferrule which we
don't
What I find even more annoying is that people who don't know me, have never spoken to us or bought anything from us are quite happy to pile in
with negative comments like "5mm in 100mm is 5%, monkeys could do better than that" - when did you last see a 100mm long brake hose? I
think we've made about 3 in the 7 years or so I've been doing it & obviously you have to take extra care when working with such short
lengths. "I always make my own it's half the price" - Errr, no actually it isn't I've done price comparisons b4 & by
the time you add in suppliers extortionate P & P charges etc, making them yourself might come out around 10 to 15% cheaper & that will be for
a heavier, uglier, lower quality product that won't have the wipe clean PVC coating & will go rusty in a few months as soon as it's
got wet - our stainless fittings will never rust. "I get mine from a local supplier" - well that's very useful to anyone who happens
to live down the road, but won't really help the other 99.9999% of the country will it? "unfortunately there are very few companies out
there with a good all round customer service record" - well, yes, that may be true, but I don't believe it applies to ourselves &
TTBOMK this guy has never used our services for anything.
My thanks to Snapperpaul who made some intelligent comments!
Anyway, rant over, I sincerely hope that you guys agree with me in regard to our customer service, if not please point out what we're doing
wrong! What really gripes is that I have no way to defend myself on the forum in question as I'm not a member there, hence my airing of this in
public on here - sorry to have gone on so long, just wanted to put the record straight!
[Edited on 26/10/15 by russbost]
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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joneh
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 09:57 AM |
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You can't please 100% of people 100% of the time, no matter how hard you try. Don't let it get you down, learn from it what you can and
move on.
Some customers are just dicks.
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MP3C
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 10:01 AM |
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Entirely unjustified in my opinion. I normally have a seperate selection of nuts so would never be a problem and like you said, would use the old
ones. If they work whats the point in changing them and wouldnt see an issue if not supplied. Regarding your tolerances. If I was to do it myself it
would be the same, you would need eyes like a hawk to notice anyway and wouldent order something that was the "prefect" length because 9
out of 10 times its a nightmare fitting and normally have to get a longer one anyway. Bit OTT for a name and shame thread, obviously has impossible
high standards.
Matt
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Daf
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 10:41 AM |
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Some people are just like that - it's life!
However I've bought a number of items off you both through locostbuilders and through ebay and had nothing but EXCELLENT service and
wouldn't hesitate for a moment to highly recomend your services!
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imp paul
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 10:56 AM |
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keep your chin up russ some times life is very unfair and can be cruel all you can do is your best 
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Irony
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 10:58 AM |
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Some people moan constantly and they make it their mission in life. I know a woman who complains at the slightest quibble. She has had 4 free
holidays at centre parks due to constantly complaining about the cleaning of the apartments. Complaining pays these days. She more of less does it
professional.
Plenty of people will correct him.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 11:04 AM |
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Forget him, if he comes back for more tell him to 'go to HEL'
Email and public forums are not the place to sort these problems out, that's where the phone comes in, unfortunately too many people hide behind
email to air their gripes.....
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richardm6994
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 11:07 AM |
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Personally, I know full well how hard it is to start a company from the ground up, and how a damming / unfair review can really hurt businesses.....so
I do sympathize with your rant.
As some of you maybe aware, I am the Chairman of RHOCaR and as such I have looked into this matter to decide upon it's validity and whether or
not to remove the topic from the forum.......I have tried to take a balanced view of it based upon my observations;
The legitimate complaint I see is the fact that the customer ordered 2 hoses at 400mm, however 1 of them arrived at 395mm and the other at 405mm.
I agree that this discrepancy is probably not noticeable when fitted to the car........however the fact still stands that you have not supplied the
length which was ordered from you (irrespective of how much cheaper you are)......................does your website state a length tolerance that you
work to?......from looking in various places on your website I couldn't see any tolerance advice anywhere.............however what you do state
on your front page for brake hoses is;
"we are well used to providing the customer with exactly what he, or she, wants"
and
"Our custom made bespoke Stainless Steel Braided Flexible Brake Hoses, with Stainless Steel unions are made to your exact requirements"
So on one hand you openly claim to provide hoses to exact requirements.....but in reality (from what I can see) you don't supply to
"exact" requirements, you supply to a tolerance however you do not make this tolerance known at order placement (unless I'm
mistaken).
We all have to work to tolerances, I accept that, but your customer's should be made aware of this before they place their orders.......whenever
I receive a machining job, I issue an approval drawing fully dimensioned with tolerances for my customer to approve before any work is done and money
changes hands.
Lessons learnt? you are always going to find pedantic customers, and so you need probably need to make sure you update your website with tolerances
that you work to?
If I have missed where you state hose length tolerances on your website, then I am sorry and my points made above would not be valid and so I would
gladly remove the topic from the RHOCaR forum.
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ReMan
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 11:08 AM |
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As said give him the opportunity to close it with a copy f your responses.
He won't , so that makes him the cock with a short keyboard warrior fuse, before, as you clearly have, giving you the opportunity to fully
resolve it to his satisfaction. But as mentioned its good enough to fit
I'd be pissed if I were you too. Unfortunatly we live in a world of internet fucktards having had my own share recently on eBay and other such
more local sires where people reserve the right to wee you about
[Edited on 26/10/15 by ReMan]
www.plusnine.co.uk
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 11:56 AM |
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I think the guy is being a bit pedantic over 5mm, and then making it out as a big issue on the Robin Hood forum.
But having said that having been self employed for the last 20years, the customer is always right, even when he is not.
You could have just offered him a couple of nuts, and to make him another hose up, either 395mm 400mm or 405mm, I am sure he would have been happy
then, yes its cost you a few quid, but its worth it for no stress.
Also it does say on your webb site, that the brake hoses with bulk head fixings come with a nut
http://furorecars.co.uk/brake-clutch-hoses/
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CosKev3
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 12:03 PM |
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I can see his point if it does not state on the order form/hose listing page you work to a 5mm tolerance.
I wouldn't be happy with hoses 10mm difference in length tbh,as I'm fussy and unless I agreed to the tolerance difference before purchase
I would expect the hoses to be spot on to my ordered length.
Don't agree with the public posting on a forum though.
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Doctor Derek Doctors
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 12:50 PM |
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This sort of stuff really annoys me and also worries me with running a small business, one complete pranny can spread a load of bile. The thread title
is the worst bit "Name and Shame", what a thoughtless thing to do.
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Mark100
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 12:52 PM |
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Ive never had any problem with any of the stuff from you and when the wrong battery did arrive you changed it and had the new one on next day delivery
free of charge keep up the good work chap
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sandwich
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 01:33 PM |
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A sign of a good company is how well they treat the awkward customers. Posting on another forum "Flaming the Flamer" and trying to score
points is not the sign of a mature and customer focussed company. What were you hoping to achieve by even doing this? How many of your customers are
Robin Hood owners or builders? You may have alienated many of your future customers with your snide and snobbish comments about the Robin Hood
quality. Is it your aim to destroy your business?
The better way would be to deal with this behind the scenes, instead of making yourself look like an amateur.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 02:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by richardm6994
Personally, I know full well how hard it is to start a company from the ground up, and how a damming / unfair review can really hurt businesses.....so
I do sympathize with your rant.
As some of you maybe aware, I am the Chairman of RHOCaR and as such I have looked into this matter to decide upon it's validity and whether or
not to remove the topic from the forum.......I have tried to take a balanced view of it based upon my observations;
The legitimate complaint I see is the fact that the customer ordered 2 hoses at 400mm, however 1 of them arrived at 395mm and the other at 405mm.
I agree that this discrepancy is probably not noticeable when fitted to the car........however the fact still stands that you have not supplied the
length which was ordered from you (irrespective of how much cheaper you are)......................does your website state a length tolerance that you
work to?......from looking in various places on your website I couldn't see any tolerance advice anywhere.............
Firstly, as a chairman you should be putting forward your views in a professional manner, and putting dozens of full stops between sentences is
anything but.
I've just checked out Russ's web site and within 20 seconds of opening the FuroreProduct ashop front I found
this statement on hose tolerance. It's not hidden, you simply navigate to the brake hose
section and it's very clearly stated at the top of the page.
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sandwich
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 02:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I've just checked out Russ's web site and within 20 seconds of opening the FuroreProduct ashop front I found
this statement on hose tolerance. It's not hidden, you simply navigate to the brake hose
section and it's very clearly stated at the top of the page.
The original site the hoses were purchased from was Brakehose.co.uk according to the post. Not http://furoreproducts.co.uk. I can't see a
tolerance listed on the site the hoses were purchased from (although I may have missed it)
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 02:28 PM |
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"If I have missed where you state hose length tolerances on your website, then I am sorry and my points made above would not be valid and so I
would gladly remove the topic from the RHOCaR forum. "
"Stainless Steel Braided Flexible Brake Hoses, with Stainless Steel unions made to your...
Please be aware that due to monitor/computer differences and changes made by our supplier, the colour of hoses may be differ slightly. We make hoses
to a tolerance of + or - 5mm, it is ALWAYS better to have a hose slightly too long than too short, a short hose can be dangerous, so please make
adequate allowance when specifying your hoses. If you require a hose where absolute accuracy is required then please contact us at the time of order
& we will do our best to ensure accuracy"
I guess this means the rant will be taken down then.
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sandwich
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 02:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
"If I have missed where you state hose length tolerances on your website, then I am sorry and my points made above would not be valid and so I
would gladly remove the topic from the RHOCaR forum. "
"Stainless Steel Braided Flexible Brake Hoses, with Stainless Steel unions made to your...
Please be aware that due to monitor/computer differences and changes made by our supplier, the colour of hoses may be differ slightly. We make hoses
to a tolerance of + or - 5mm, it is ALWAYS better to have a hose slightly too long than too short, a short hose can be dangerous, so please make
adequate allowance when specifying your hoses. If you require a hose where absolute accuracy is required then please contact us at the time of order
& we will do our best to ensure accuracy"
I guess this means the rant will be taken down then.
JeffW, where on http://brakehose.co.uk is that? I can't seem to find it.
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richardm6994
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 02:44 PM |
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firstly apologies to the grammar police.............
secondly, the website used for buying the hoses is;
http://brakehose.co.uk/
As I said before, I cannot find any references to tolerances on the site used for buying the hoses. If I have missed the tolerance statement on that
site and someone could point me in the direction of them (not to a completely different website), then I am wrong in what I have said in the above
post.
Lastly, I would point out a couple of my own personal frustrations wit what has been said;
"what really gripes is that I have no way to defend myself on the forum in question as I'm not a member there"
This is not the case. Anyone can join the forum as a user an contribute to this discussion. I have seen that a member on here (Irony) has done just
that earlier this morning.
"we can to satisfy his "issue" (perhaps that should be mental problem!)"
So putting dozens of full stops between sentences make me unprofessional, however calling a customer as has having "mental problems" is
perfectly acceptable on LCB?!?!?!
That is me done now on this topic. I will honor what I say and remove the topic on RHOCaR if someone can show me where tolerances are clearly stated
on the website used for purchasing the hoses.......http://brakehose.co.uk/
[Edited on 26/10/15 by richardm6994]
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owelly
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 02:49 PM |
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Taken from the brakehose site
quote:
If a bespoke item has a mistake which was due to an error on behalf of Furore Products then we will replace or reimburse you. If an item is made and
the error was on the order then the item will be deemed to be made as ordered. We will in all events endeavour to come to a happy conclusion.
I guess that concludes the discussion.
Incidentally, I have used furoreproducts.co.uk quite a few times and had nothing but excellent service. I've 'phoned them at 5pm and had
my custom hoses on my doormat by 10am the next day.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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jossey
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 04:06 PM |
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The guys a prick I trust you guys and if I had a problem with your stuff I trust you would solve.
Thanks
Thanks
David Johnson
Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.
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Irony
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 04:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by richardm6994
Anyone can join the forum as a user an contribute to this discussion. I have seen that a member on here (Irony) has done just that earlier this
morning.
Yep, that was me. I have bought quite a few products from Furore and all have been to a high standard as was the customer service. Russ even helped
with a difficult 'to get matched up' clutch hose which no other company wanted to help with. He phoned me himself. I just felt it
important to get a different review on there.
I don't own my own business but I work in marketing and I know how damaging it can be to have one bad review on a internet forum. People are
quick to post a complaint or even a opinion (any locostbuilder should remember this post, which I believe should be removed
link). We have had our own staff voicing their negative opinions on social media
a few times. If you have a problem then take it up with the person responsible, not in the public domain (unless very very serious). We have now
made negative opinion on social media a action of GROSS MISCONDUCT in all employees contracts.
In fact thinking about it, if Forure can prove the OP wrong he could start court proceedings.
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Charlie_Zetec
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 04:38 PM |
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Honestly, I wouldn't be overly happy with 10mm difference between hoses if I bought them off-the-shelf product at full retail price, but then
again, I'm rather OCD about things! But if you're paying a lesser amount, for the same quality product, and the tolerances are stated on
the site (or any other affiliated site), then you always take the risk that one may have maximum tolerance and the other the lower tolerance.
Standard operating procedure.
As for things like the nuts, well, if you're that fussed about it then perhaps you should've read the product description properly!
I'm sure everyone here has glanced over something before and missed bits off, and that's exactly what has happened here.
I've spoken with Russ over plenty of things, and always found him more than helpful. And yes, in some instances you do go the "extra
mile" to keep some customers happy, but you can't/don't do it for all of them.
"You'll never please 100% of the people 100% of the time."
I'd recommend Russ/Furore based upon my conversations alone.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity!
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v8kid
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 04:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by richardm6994
"we can to satisfy his "issue" (perhaps that should be mental problem!)"
So putting dozens of full stops between sentences make me unprofessional, however calling a customer as has having "mental problems" is
perfectly acceptable on LCB?!?!?!
[Edited on 26/10/15 by richardm6994]
Surely this has gone far enough? I for one would hesitate to buy from a company whose response to a complaint was to label the customer as having
"mental problems". I understand a suppliers frustration at a grossly overstated complaint but is name calling going to resolve it?
Best for all parties to cool down and apologize to each other for going too far.
After all we are all gentlemen here
Cheers!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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russbost
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| posted on 26/10/15 at 05:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by PAUL FISHER
I think the guy is being a bit pedantic over 5mm, and then making it out as a big issue on the Robin Hood forum.
But having said that having been self employed for the last 20years, the customer is always right, even when he is not.
You could have just offered him a couple of nuts, and to make him another hose up, either 395mm 400mm or 405mm, I am sure he would have been happy
then, yes its cost you a few quid, but its worth it for no stress.
Also it does say on your webb site, that the brake hoses with bulk head fixings come with a nut
http://furorecars.co.uk/brake-clutch-hoses/
Sorry I've not responded to any of these till now, been very busy all day - Mondays are invariably a busy day!
It is unusual for us to be out by 10mm over 2 hoses, & an unusual coincidence that one is on the bottom tolerance & the other the top, but of
course I have only his word for the lengths. As you will see from our response I have offered to replace one of the hoses, but he doesn't
apparently want that, as for offering a couple of nuts, well yes I could have offered that, but he'd already posted his "name &
shame" by then, which strangely made me a little less cooperative! For anyone thinking it's petty to charge for the nuts I suggest go to
any supplier other than ourselves & see what they cost! Stainless steel half nuts in m10 x 1.0, because it's not a standard thread, are
extortionate - when we sell them at £1ea, I can assure you I'm not making a lot out of that.
Re the wording you've spotted on Furore Cars, I wasn't aware of the discrepancy & will immediately correct it, though he hasn't
bought from Furore Cars Ltd. which is a completely different company to Furore Products which is a partnership, not a limited company. Apologies for
being a pedant!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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