Flying frog
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 posted on 6/5/20 at 11:14 AM |
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Tiger Avon or Raw Striker ?
Hi everyone,
I was not sure in which section I should post this topic, so hopefully this will be appropriate.
Few days ago with my father and I have decided to start the project of building a kit-car.
After some researches (including reading through this forum) and given our budget (~£22k) we ended up, so far (I've ordered UK kit car guide
magasine so I might find something else), with two cars, the Avon and the Striker.
Our project is to fully build the car buying the 'complete pack' (inc. engine & transmission) not using donor parts.
I would like to know, based on your experience what are the main differences (handling, build quality,'comfort', etc..) & pros and
cons for each model.
We would like to drive the car on the road only and as we're not pro driver to add the LSD option (maybe not necessary?).
The biggest of us is 1.8m and ~ 85kg (I read the Striker is a very small car, will my father manage to get into it?).
The car will be built and mainly be driven in France. We will choose the LHD option for the chassis, but I was surprised not to see a LHD steering
rack or LHD dashboard proposed.
Is the dashboard compatible for LHD and RHD (maybe we'll have to cut it)?
Can we use the steering rack for both sides (meaning moving the position of the steering column input shaft onto the rack), as I believe you cannot
use a RHD steering rack on LHD vehicle?
Finally, more homologation specific (maybe foreign members will read this topic), do you know if the constructors can provide EU COC (Certificat of
Conformity) when we buy a kit? I will need this to homologate the vehicle in France.
I already planned to visit the constructors when the global situation will settle down.
I need more details than what's written in the order form and I would like to road test the vehicles, but if you can already give me some light
it will be very helpful.
Many thanks in advance for your support......and sorry about my poor English in advance.
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peter030371
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| posted on 6/5/20 at 02:38 PM |
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I have a Striker and love it but it may not suit you, you would need to try one 'for size'. More to the point I think you will struggle to
register any 'kit car' in France. I know others that have tried and failed/given up.
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obfripper
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| posted on 6/5/20 at 03:25 PM |
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I would recommend the Striker for its handling as well as being nimble due to its size, but you would need to at least sit in one to see whether you
can get on with the size of the cockpit, due to the asymetric cockpit, it would need to be a LHD one for a true representation as rather like a 911
swapping sides does mess with the driving position.
I'm 5'7"(170cm) and it's plenty large enough for me, my seat will go back far enough that i cannot depress the pedals, Pekwah1
on here has a Striker, iirc he's 6'2" (190cm) and has the same seats, with the foam bench seat there's possibly a bit more
room.
The size of your feet is possibly more of an issue, i'm size 10 and can only wear certain shoes to be able to drive without problems.
The more difficult part of the project will be getting the car registered, as the easiest option i can think of is to buy a 30 year old+ Striker and
register it as a classic (even this is a very difficult process), then rebuild it to your desired specs within the Carte Gris/CT limitations.
With pretty much every kit car you can buy, there is no type approval and therefore no COC. This means you will require an RTI (Reception a titre
isole) for all aspects of the vehicle to register it as new in France, including emissions compliant with Euro6.
Caterham and Westfield do make a couple current cars that are type approved, but they are factory built models, which will be double your budget,
there were some older ones that were also type approved from the 90's onward that might be more affordable, they will be identifiable by the
chassis number.
Have a read of this thread, it'll give some idea of the things required and the costs involved in the RTI process.
https://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=211802
If you're looking to see what's required with a LHD conversion, have a look at this thread, the Fury has a very similar design to the
Striker.
https://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=204037
Dave
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Flying frog
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| posted on 6/5/20 at 05:51 PM |
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Hi all,
Many thanks for your quick feedback
peter030371,
Yes, it's a good point. Best to try the car to see if both of us can drive.
Regarding the feasibility of having the vehicle homologated in France, you're right, the chance is very small, but I have seen adverts of
Caterham so it should be feasible (how long it will take and how difficult it will be, it's a different story).
obfripper,
Thanks for your detailed information.
Finding a LHD Striker will be impossible (I couldn't find any information regarding this vehicle on the French internet)....so I guess I will
have to imagine while testing the RHD.
The size of your feet is possibly more of an issue, i'm size 10 and can only wear certain shoes to be able to drive without problems. I
will be fine... I think my size is 8, however for my father it might be an issue...or he will have to invest in driving boots 
With pretty much every kit car you can buy, there is no type approval and therefore no COC. This means you will require an RTI (Reception a titre
isole) for all aspects of the vehicle to register it as new in France, including emissions compliant with Euro6.
If I understood the French government website correctly, even with the COC, a RTI will still be needed.
The COC might ease the things a bit more, if it make sense.
I don't believe the Zetec engine complies with Euro6 regulation, meaning that a newer engine will have to be fitted (same story that in thread
you're referring to).
My father has already contacted the DREAL (organism in charge of the RTI among other things), so hopefully he will be able to gather additional
information.
In regards to the LHD conversion, I will have a look to the thread in details.
Thank you both for your support
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fishywick
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| posted on 6/5/20 at 06:21 PM |
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I have owned both of these cars, although I did not build either of them. They were both used largely as track cars, the Avon was never registered and
both had bike engines.
I can't help with the registration aspect or the LHD issue.
Handling - the Striker is renowned for its handling, it can be made very close to Caterham standards. The Avon is actually not far behind. A well set
up Avon would be better than a poorly set up Striker and visa versa.
Build Quality - the Striker is a very small tidy package, the works powder coat is, or was pretty poor. I am 75kg and 6' tall and had no
problem, fibreglass seat gives much more room. The footwell is small as others have said.
Avon is a little more, shall we say, agricultural. Bracing not quite so good, quality of the fibreglass panels is not great. That said I would expect
an Avon to work out quite a bit cheaper. With a bit of extra work I am sure you could improve things.
As you are talking of road use only, I would expect very little difference in performance, handling etc.
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obfripper
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| posted on 6/5/20 at 06:51 PM |
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If there is a full COC, then the RTI is not required. If there is a partial COC or it has passed IVA or similar in another eu country then a partial
RTI will be required.
With the other thread, Sylvain's car had a Swedish approval but that was not sufficient for the emissions requirements, and required a DREAL
emissions test that was effectively the same as the homologation test that a manufacturer would require for type approval (to current NEDC and euro6
limits).
The cost of that test was in the 5000 euros region which was uneconomical and if it failed would cost the same again for retest (ouch).
There is no simple answer, even importing a 30+year old car requires you to go through the FFVE to get it, getting that paperwork correct is key
there.
There are some dutch registered Strikers that are LHD, and there may be a few in Germany, but there not many about and you still need the DREAL
emissions to import into France.
Dave
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Flying frog
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| posted on 6/5/20 at 09:28 PM |
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Fishywick
Thanks for your comment, that's very interesting.
It gives me a better idea of what the differences are between the two models.
Dave
Thanks for your clarifications.
You're right, the test is bloody expensive (~ 2000 euros according UTAC) so you have to get it right first time.
Having said that, there is no way that the vehicle meets EURO 6D regulation under WLTP test procedure (unless fitting a brand new engine with CAT and
GPF and the following ECM management).
The only chance we might have would be to get a COC from a constructor, but I understand this chance is very slim as very few of them provide it.
That's not very encouraging.... 
JB
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 8/5/20 at 01:50 PM |
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Euro 6 zetec:
https://www.totalkitcar.com/2017/06/09/euro-6-for-zetec-blacktop/
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Flying frog
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| posted on 8/5/20 at 03:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ettore bugatti
Euro 6 zetec:
https://www.totalkitcar.com/2017/06/09/euro-6-for-zetec-blacktop/
Thanks a lot, it's something I will dig in
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 8/5/20 at 08:11 PM |
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Have you tried contacting either company, they may be able to help, I am sure that Tiger at least has made a LHD chassis before now and may be able to
point you in the right direction re registering.
Keith
Aviemore
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Flying frog
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| posted on 8/5/20 at 09:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Schrodinger
Have you tried contacting either company, they may be able to help, I am sure that Tiger at least has made a LHD chassis before now and may be able to
point you in the right direction re registering.
Not yet as the main blocking point was (and still is) to be able to homologate the vehicle in France.
Since Dave informed me that the vehicle has to comply with the latest emission regulations, I was not confident in the possibility of homologating the
vehicle.
However, based on the information of 'Ettore Bugatti', it looks like the Westfield importer in Germany proposes vehicles with Euro 6 Zetec
since 2017
I'll contact Tiger & Raw (Westfield is out of our budget) tomorrow in order to understand whether or not the engine proposed in their
respective kit is Euro 6 compliant.
I'll ask at the same time some advices for LHD built and if they have experience of homologation in France from previous request of a French
customer).
JB
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