givemethebighammer
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| posted on 13/12/02 at 08:13 PM |
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Peugeot Wheels
I found a set of 5 205 1.9 GTI wheels and tyres for £125 !!! (local breakers)...so I took the chance and bought them. Not bad nick few scuffs.
The question is how do I get these beasties to fit my sierra running gear. PCD is the same, however offset looks about 16mm out and 205 uses wheel
bolts, sierra uses studs and nuts.
Do I chuck them straight on, or do I have to have them modified
info from tyre save website
Sierra
PCD 4 x 108
Offset 35...38
C/Bore 63.3
205
PCD 4 x 108
Offset 15...22
C/Bore 65.0
thanks
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chrisg
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| posted on 13/12/02 at 09:07 PM |
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That's an interesting Question, wish I knew the answer!
I dont think that the offset is going to make that much difference on a Locost except to the width(rear) or the positioning(front) of the wheel
arches.
Most of the problems with offset are due to the different loading of the wheel bearings, there's so much less weight with a Locost.
Providing there's no catching of brake components or suspension, I think you should be ok, after all I see plenty of boy racers with Peugeot wheels
on their Fords or vice-versa, and I don't suppose they've even considered it!
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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Rorty
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| posted on 14/12/02 at 03:32 AM |
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There are two problems with fitting these wheels as I see it.
1/ If the Sierra's centre bore is 63.3mm, and the 205's is 65mm, then there isn't any means of acurately locating the wheel. The wheel's
concentricity is achieved by location on the hub's spigot, and not the wheel studs and nuts.
A way around this, is to machine the back of the 205 rims, and press in rings to match the Sierra's centre bore.
2/ If the Sierra's off set is 35mm and the 205's is only 15mm, then there won't be any detrimental effect on the wheel bearings, but there could be
insufficient caliper clearance. The biggest problem though, could be at the front.
If the difference in wheel offset reduces the positive scrub radius, then at worst, the car will lose some steering "feel".
On the other hand, if the reduced offset creates negative scrub, then at best, the steering will feel bloody anoying, and at worst be bloody
dangerous.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 14/12/02 at 10:14 AM |
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Well done rorty I couldn't have put it better myself!.
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chrisg
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| posted on 14/12/02 at 01:52 PM |
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I stand (sit) corrected!!
You could have broken it to me more gently tho...............*sob*
Cheers
Chris
Note to all: I really don't know when to leave well alone. I tried to get clever with the mods, then when they gave me a lifeline to see the
error of my ways, I tried to incite more trouble via u2u. So now I'm banned, never to return again. They should have done it years ago!
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 14/12/02 at 04:26 PM |
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Soooo..
Basically, if I correct the C/bore with a pressed in sleeve and correct the offset with a spacer of some type, everything should fit and work OK ?
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locodude
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| posted on 14/12/02 at 06:53 PM |
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So why then do the alloy spacers that rally design/tweeks etc... sell have no such hub spigot recess/spigot machined into them? and they seem to work
perfectly. Surely if the wheel nuts are tapered then the wheel has no choice but to fit centrally? Or am I mistaken?
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johnston
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| posted on 14/12/02 at 07:15 PM |
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yep loco is right if the nuts are tapered they self centre the wheel but tighten them up the opposite nuts first just to b safe
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Rorty
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| posted on 15/12/02 at 12:10 AM |
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Chrisg: Sorry to have hurt your feelings m8, though you were right about the posibility of fouling the brake components.
As for the Boy Racers, they will always go to any length to look/sound different, and convince themselves they (because their car feels/sounds
different) have made improvements.
Yes, the wheel studs with tapered nuts should centre the wheel (you'd be surprised how inacurate they can be, especially if the stud holes have been
drilled rather than bored), but wheel studs are designed purely for tension, not for shear loads.
Just for the fun of it, if you do have a wheel that has a too big centre bore, or a hub with no spigot, jack your car up, spin the wheel ,and hold a
dial indicator up to the spinning rim. Remove the wheel and put it on again (even on the exact same studs as before), spin the wheel again, and you
won't see the same reading on the dial indicator!
Of course you'll always be able to buy bolt on parts that fit, or appear to do the job, that's what they want you to do, but ask yourself why they
haven't duplicated that funny looking protrusion. You can rest assured the original manufacturers of the hub didn't just leave it there because they
were too lazy to machine it off.
Some things work for some people, but there is usually a right way and a wrong way. Big hammer boy: if I was you, I would just buy the right wheels,
and not waste my money chasing something that still may not work, even after they have been modified.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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interestedparty
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| posted on 15/12/02 at 08:49 AM |
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I agree with Rorty, the wheel requires a close fitting centre to ensure concentricity, the studs alone are not enough. Some makes of car can suffer
endless wheel balance and steering vibration problems unless this is taken care of
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 15/12/02 at 10:06 AM |
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Also if my memory is correct the peugeot rims are designed for bolts with flat face washer seats, rather than conical seats for taper nuts/bolts.
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johnston
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| posted on 15/12/02 at 11:47 AM |
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no the gti's have tapered studs i have 1 b4 u ask and worked at endless 205/309 rally cars and there a puss to get on in a hurry
they also have the same thread on the studs so the peugot studs fit mk2 escys (been there done that)
also quite a few cars either have a flat face on the hub or the flange is smaller than the rim and if there a tight fit there a bugger to get of when
they rust
and dont forget if u fit spacers it'll take away the flange anyway ,mmmmmm how many rally cars are there out there wit spacers and no hassle
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Rorty
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| posted on 15/12/02 at 09:00 PM |
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Johnston and Locodude: I'm only guessing now, but I imagine the reason those aftermarket spacers don't have a spigot, is because the
manufacturers/retailers can stock fewer items if they are a universal fit i.e. no spigot, and oval stud holes. Also, they probably think that someone
using spacers is a bit of a petrolhead anyway, and won't worry too much about a little thing like vibration.
It would be interesting to see how quickly they would flee the scene if someone had a fatal accident after their wheel studs sheared, due to not
having the support of a centre bore/spigot!
I race off-road, and spin my own wheels from sheet aluminium, and I would never risk running on just the wheel studs.
Each to their own, we're only human. 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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interestedparty
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| posted on 15/12/02 at 09:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Rorty
spin my own wheels from sheet aluminium
Now a pic or two of that would be interesting
John
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Rorty
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| posted on 15/12/02 at 10:55 PM |
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It's a very simple process, but I don't have any pics of the actual process, just the finished articles. There's a good symposium on metal spinning at
http://www.kochmetalspinning.com/metal_spinning.html
If you have any specific queries on the wheels I make, I'd be glad to help.
 
Rescued attachment dingrings & rims.JPG
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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johnston
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| posted on 17/12/02 at 11:39 PM |
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quote:
I would never risk running on just the wheel studs.
like i said how many mk2s are bombin down forests with just the wheel studs holdin the wheel on and have you ever seen the stages over here, seen
plenty of bent racks, axles tca's struts etc etc but usually wheels come of when there loose
oh and we ran a 300bhp evo with spacers no spigott longer studs on tarmac and forest with absolutly no hassle cars even been on its side and drove
almost 10 mile wit no tyre
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johnston
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| posted on 17/12/02 at 11:40 PM |
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quote:
I would never risk running on just the wheel studs.
like i said how many mk2s are bombin down forests with just the wheel studs holdin the wheel on and have you ever seen the stages over here, seen
plenty of bent racks, axles tca's struts etc etc but usually wheels come of when there loose
oh and we ran a 300bhp evo with spacers no spigott longer studs on tarmac and forest with absolutly no hassle cars even been on its side and drove
almost 10 mile wit no tyre
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Rorty
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| posted on 19/12/02 at 05:45 AM |
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I race off-road with/against others, some of whom don't bother about spigots on hubs. Some of them get away with it too.
Like I said, some things work for some people.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Stu16v
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| posted on 19/12/02 at 07:03 PM |
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I owned an Astra GTE once which was upgraded with 'big wheels' which I bought cheap of another car. They were located purely by the studs, and the
car always suffered with steering wheel shake. I had them balanced umpteen times, swapped the wheels around, changed the tyres, etc, and never cured
it. One day, I was talking to a bloke in a garage who was fitting some new alloys to a car, and sorting out some adaptors for the centres of the
wheels. "Why are you bothering doing that then" I asked. "Cause otherwise you will always have balance probs" he said. That afternoon, I took my
car there, had the wheels re-balanced (again), and had the proper location rings fitted. And to this day, it hasnt had wheel wobble.
As for spacers, quality ones ARE available with the spigot location ring formed male/female respectively. You pays yer money.......
Dont just build it.....make it!
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