Jon Ison
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 06:39 PM |
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Just Pondering.......
I'm pretty set on fitting a ZX12 engine during the re-build but one thing keeps popping up in the back of my mind......
RX7, allways wanted too drop one of these in the back end of kit.....
What too do.......
any thoughts ?
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shortie
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 06:51 PM |
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Well I say it's worth a go Jon, why not, friend of mine reckons they are awesome motors, they are very light and can be tuned easily.
Rich.
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andygtt
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 07:04 PM |
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The ZX12 will be more track focused but the wankel will still rev hard..... I recon you'd be better putting 3 rotors together to get the power
than turbo's so you keep the power and revs high.
however I'd bet the wankel is going to be more expensive and not as much fun.
I know someone who is mad about these engines and building cars around them, don't share the fasination myself, but then I've never driven
one
ZX12 all day long
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 07:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
The ZX12 will be more track focused but the wankel will still rev hard..... I recon you'd be better putting 3 rotors together to get the power
than turbo's so you keep the power and revs high.
however I'd bet the wankel is going to be more expensive and not as much fun.
I know someone who is mad about these engines and building cars around them, don't share the fasination myself, but then I've never driven
one
ZX12 all day long
would this guy mind if you passed on his e~mail addy ?
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andygtt
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 07:25 PM |
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I'll find out as I only have his number.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 08:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
The ZX12 will be more track focused but the wankel will still rev hard..... I recon you'd be better putting 3 rotors together to get the power
than turbo's so you keep the power and revs high.
however I'd bet the wankel is going to be more expensive and not as much fun.
I know someone who is mad about these engines and building cars around them, don't share the fasination myself, but then I've never driven
one
ZX12 all day long
would this guy mind if you passed on his e~mail addy ?
IIRC Bill Shurvinton on the se7ens.net / megasquirt mailing lists is pretty keen on the rotaries...
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 08:34 PM |
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I thought of using a rotary 13b engine a couple of years ago, but decided against it as theyre very heavy (the engine block alone weighs 100kg), and
they're very expensive to tune to give the same power/weight ratio as a Gsxr1100w (which I did use). Serious engines need some drastic porting,
and I was quoted £5000+VAT +core unit to build a 240bhp 13b . Then you need a gearbox, adaptor plate dry sump equipment etc.etc.
Also they're VERY thirsty, very fuel inefficient (a lot of energy goes straight out of the exhaust port as intense heat), and extremely
difficult to silence effectively. Although they do sound awesome!
Go with the ZX12 - it'll be faster and a 1/4 of the price.
Cheers Chris.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 09:01 PM |
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Jon, I reckon you've been talking to Chris Mason far too much just lately.........
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 09:31 PM |
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the reason for fuel inefficiency is the long combustion chamber .
you can buy almost anything for these engines - and it is true for high revs you need to do some porting , lighter rotors etc - the ally rotor engines
can rev past 13k .
theyre hard to silence.
but - after watching a 4 rotor at le mans , it was hard not to be impressed by the glowing red exhausts down the mulsanne straight . it was putting
out about 550 hp .
simpler would be a 13b turbo , but no more than 20 psi or youll expand the housings off !
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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ned
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 09:39 PM |
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forced induction induction isn't permitted in the 750 rgb series is it jon? or would you then run it in the kitcar series anyway as it'd
no longer be a rgb!? (do they permit forced induciton?!)
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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indykid
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 10:42 PM |
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such a good idea, it was worth saying twice
tom
i'd seriously fancy this route if i had any capital behind me.
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indykid
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 10:55 PM |
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jeebus h christ
so you're gonna try to kill yourself, not just the car this time?
can't wait to see this one!
you've got some serious vision there chris. when will it be at MK?
tom
and to think, all i want is a 2.0 pinto
........and a power steering rack for a sierra
[Edited on 12/9/05 by indykid]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 12/9/05 at 11:13 PM |
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You know... it's all well and good putting an engine into an Indy with enormous gee gee's - but without some serious thought to what is
happening to the chassis under these types of loads you might end up screwing it's arse off (Oeeerrr missus!) just trying to accelerate hard!
We have been told that the ZX-12R engine was a little too powerful for the MK Indy Chassis without modifications. It's not just extra weight and
power that is considered, it ought to be extra triangulation to stop the chassis twisting up too... it'll still be worth it no doubt but
let's not do owt daft!
Just my 2p!
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andygtt
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| posted on 13/9/05 at 11:22 AM |
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I'd agree with hellfire, a good example would be to compare the atom chassis with the MK's.
a car engine with nearly 400bhp is going to have over 300ftlb.... and the torque is the thing that will move the chassis around.
Sayin that I recon the honda engine is IMO the best car engine for a 7type I'm just worried about goin OTT.
But then I'm not one to talk about not going OTT.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 13/9/05 at 11:48 AM |
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And then with all that extra weight up front, you've really got to consider how you are going to get all that power down on the back
end............................... 
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Hellfire
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| posted on 13/9/05 at 07:30 PM |
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The guy that commented on the ZX12R being to powerful for an Indy was a well seasoned and very experienced self-funded racing driver.
Personally I don't think most of us would notice the chassis twisting until it was potentially too late anway
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mookaloid
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| posted on 13/9/05 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
zx12 too powerful for an indy chassis, i have to disagree with that one, i don't think mookaloid with 200bhp has any problems with chassis
twist, i've never heard anyone complain about the chassis twisting due to engine power and i'm sure someone somewhere has run high bhp
output before
Interestingly, when I attended the Harewood Hill climb driving school, my instructor said he could feel the chassis flexing a bit. not sure if he
meant under acceleration or cornering (or both) though.
This confirmed some of my suspicions from driving it on the road. Although on the road you don't get the cornering forces that you get on the
track - (well you shouldn't)
I didn't have my forward bracing strut fitted at the time cos I can't get a passenger in aswell but this seems to stiffen things
noticeably when fitted.
I would like to try a 'normal' S2000 engine in an Indy first to see what that goes like. I'm not convinced about the height of the
engine yet - how does it compare with the pinto? have you measured it yet Chris?
Cheers
Mark
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andygtt
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| posted on 14/9/05 at 06:25 AM |
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The main twisting loads are going to come from the rear were the power goes down, I think its actually the rear wheels wanting to come forward and
inward under heavy accelleration.
You can't look at the loads seaparatelly, as there will be cornering loads at the same time as there will be accelleration loads.
Maybe have a look at what's been done to the chasis by some of the guys who race big powered locost's.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 14/9/05 at 07:37 AM |
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I think most cars flex a bit - look at most production convertibles! Anyway I think that probably the most vulnerable and most difficult to predict
part of the package in any high power installation is the DRIVER
Good luck with it!
Cheers
Mark
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