DanP
|
| posted on 21/9/05 at 10:08 PM |
|
|
Are standard sierra brakes man enough for a v8 viento?
I'm currently trying to decide what to do about my brakes at the moment, my options are either to go with standard 260mm sierra discs and
calipers (reconditioned) or try and do something with a set of 4 piston mercedes calipers that i got on ebay, or something else??
What do people recommend for a V8 powered Viento? are standard sierra brakes upto the job? the luego website seems to suggest 4 pots are probably
best - would these be overkill on such a light car?
Thanks for listening... 
|
|
|
|
|
Simon
|
| posted on 21/9/05 at 11:06 PM |
|
|
Dan,
I'd speak to Luego. If you're gonna use it (a lot) on a track the brakes will have to take a hell of a lot of (ab)use. If you are
intending to amble around the countryside with pipe and hat, then they'll probably be ok.
Are you putting in a light (Rover) or heavy (Chevy/Ford) V8
ATB
Simon
|
|
|
donut
|
| posted on 22/9/05 at 06:34 AM |
|
|
How heavy is the Viento V8 compared to the car that the brakes were designed to stop? I would say that they would be enough considering that the donor
was probably over a tonne and the brakes would have to be enough to stop the car and caravan/trailer if it had one fitted. Your car will be about
700kg i would expect but hey it's your choice.
At brands there was a super fast Dax Rush with a zx12r engine which had std brakes. Probabl not as heavy as yours but it would be slowing down at
faster speeds.
Right thats my 2p spent!
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 22/9/05 at 11:20 AM |
|
|
I would suggest that its not just the donor weight that should be considered but also the performance of the new vehicle. To my mind there werent many
std Sierras on std braking that could do 0-60 in 5 secs ish. Also the Sierra had a servo which we dont tend to go for. With a V8 id be tempted to
upgrade the Sierra system with grooved discs and sports pads up front and maybe rear discs. Im using std Sierra (albeit all new) on my Pinto powered
car up to around 130bhp. I have no experience of the system yet but have been in a car with same brake set up that was putting out around 150bhp and
it stopped very well (good tyres as well). Over 150bhp id be tempted to uprate.
If you go std for now to keep cost down im sure basic performance upgrades will allow it to be tuned to improve it later. The only area that will be a
chew to upgrade later is rear disc brakes so you might want these now for ease of build.
What are you estimating the ower to be with V8, ive heard 160 / 165 with good torque is conservative and easily achievable.
|
|
|
G.Man
|
| posted on 22/9/05 at 11:23 AM |
|
|
I doubt the 0-60 time has anything to do with the brake requirements, and I am sure that stock sierra disks will be more than adequate for the weight
of the car if you have the right pads etc...
Its is surprising how little you need on an open wheeled 600kg car...
Many heavier v8 Cobras have stock sierra disks, some have vented tho..
If you are worried I may have a set of sierra cosworth calipers and disks you can use... will need pads tho... those will definately be MORE than
adequate
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
|
|
|
Stu16v
|
| posted on 22/9/05 at 06:10 PM |
|
|
quote:
I would suggest that its not just the donor weight that should be considered but also the performance of the new vehicle. To my mind there werent many
std Sierras on std braking that could do 0-60 in 5 secs ish.
[/quote
As G.man says, the brakes have nothing to do with the way the vehicle can accelerate - the brakes are there to stop - not go...!
quote:
Also the Sierra had a servo which we dont tend to go for.
A servo does absolutely nothing to improve braking performance. What it does do is lessen the effort required to apply the brakes...
Not having a go DarrenW, just re-examining things logically...
My car has std Cortina front brakes (which I believe are smaller than Sierra), and 4x4 rear discs. It weighs 605kgs fully wet. And it gets used
frequently on track days. If I tried extremely hard I could just get the brakes to overheat with standard Ferodo pads. If the car was being driven
anywhere near as hard on the road as I was to do this you need your licence removing!
I have since upgraded to more suitable pad compounds - which is what I would recommend anyone to do first, before looking at different calipers.
Dont just build it.....make it!
|
|
|
G3OFF
|
| posted on 22/9/05 at 07:17 PM |
|
|
hello...
I have a viento... rover v8
and im just in the process of looking for a better brake setup.. thinkin of 4 or 6 pots with alloy bells and bolt on rotors..
the standard brakes are ok... but when you give it some real stick.. you can tell there not as good as you would like... would definatley recommend
going for a decent setup in the first place to save on work.... but thats just my 2 cents...
p.s. if anyones got a nice set of brake 4 sale.. let me know
no such thing as to much power......
|
|
|
Stu16v
|
| posted on 22/9/05 at 08:23 PM |
|
|
What brake pads do you run G30FF?
Dont just build it.....make it!
|
|
|
G.Man
|
| posted on 22/9/05 at 09:49 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by G3OFF
hello...
I have a viento... rover v8
and im just in the process of looking for a better brake setup.. thinkin of 4 or 6 pots with alloy bells and bolt on rotors..
the standard brakes are ok... but when you give it some real stick.. you can tell there not as good as you would like... would definatley recommend
going for a decent setup in the first place to save on work.... but thats just my 2 cents...
p.s. if anyones got a nice set of brake 4 sale.. let me know
Sounds like you have carp pads...
They are the most important part of the setup in most cases...
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
|
|
|
G3OFF
|
| posted on 23/9/05 at 09:54 AM |
|
|
nah tis not crap pads... had tried a few diffrent types to be honest... think the last ones i brought were ebc greenstuff.. if i remember
correctley.. and its also had new disks all round... definatley gona go get a set of big brakes after seeing the diffrence it made on me mates
cossie..
just a daft questions but does wheel size affect braking much?
no such thing as to much power......
|
|
|
G.Man
|
| posted on 23/9/05 at 05:17 PM |
|
|
Have you got braide hoses?
What fluid are you running?
You could be boiling them up as the brakes are desgned to stop 2000kg's not the measley 6-700kgs of a kit car...
I have some 4 pot cossie calipers and vented disks if your interested as I am going for the lightweight raceleda setup on my MNR
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
|
|
|
Stu16v
|
| posted on 23/9/05 at 05:55 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by G3OFF
nah tis not crap pads... had tried a few diffrent types to be honest... think the last ones i brought were ebc greenstuff..
Hmm. As uprated pads go, they wouldn't be at the top of my list. However, others find them OK.
quote:
Originally posted by G3OFFif i remember correctley.. and its also had new disks all round... definatley gona go get a set of big
brakes after seeing the diffrence it made on me mates cossie..
just a daft questions but does wheel size affect braking much?
Not wheel size so much, but rolling radius, yes. What you would be doing by increasing the overall diameter is also increasing the mechanical
advantage the wheel has over the brakes...
Dont just build it.....make it!
|
|
|
wilkingj
|
| posted on 25/9/05 at 07:01 PM |
|
|
The std Sierra brakes will stop 1 ton of sierra at 80mph.
It is reasonable to expect those same brakes to stop 1/2 ton in less distance. (but not 1/2 the distance )
ie there is less Mass to stop.
I can see that not having the servo will count against it, and also using the Std Sierra Pads which are designed to have servo power applied to them
will also not help.
I would have thought a more suitable set of pads, would be the answer.
What sort... I have no idea!.
I still dont know why the designs all go for twin master cylinders with the ballance bar. I can understand this for a Track car, but a road going car,
I dont see the point. Even the SVA people make you roll pin the Brake settings once set.
I am going with twin Master cyls (as per the design) and sierra vented discs on the front and std discs on the rear. If thats not enough, then I will
try something better..
Thats my 2d Worth..
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
|
|
|
stevebubs
|
| posted on 25/9/05 at 07:14 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by G3OFF
nah tis not crap pads... had tried a few diffrent types to be honest... think the last ones i brought were ebc greenstuff.. if i remember
correctley.. and its also had new disks all round... definatley gona go get a set of big brakes after seeing the diffrence it made on me mates
cossie..
just a daft questions but does wheel size affect braking much?
I had EBC Greenstuff on my Fury and wasn't overly impressed. Now running Hawk Blacks and much much better.
|
|
|
Peteff
|
| posted on 25/9/05 at 07:21 PM |
|
|
using the Std Sierra Pads which are designed to have servo power applied to them
Servos don't increase braking power, they just reduce the effort needed to press the pedal for people who are not used to driving real cars 
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
|
|
|
Dave J
|
| posted on 26/9/05 at 03:06 PM |
|
|
Having had a drive of Luego's Viento demonstrator a couple of years ago, I decided that the standard brakes were a little wanting, therefore I
have gone the four pot route on the fronts. These should give ample stopping power.
To my mind, serious grunt needs serious braking (assuming like me you have a particularly heavy right foot)
Cheers,
Dave
|
|
|
DanP
|
| posted on 29/9/05 at 11:29 AM |
|
|
Thanks for your comments guys, after reading them and seeing the luego chevy v8 demonstrator (which had standard sierras on when i saw it), I think
I'm gonna go for standard sierra calipers with uprated discs and pads.
Cheers!
|
|
|
billy
|
| posted on 8/10/05 at 07:48 PM |
|
|
No Problem
Ive had no problem with my sierra brakes, they worked very well stopping mine at a good thrashing around Llandow ive changed discs to vented and put
some good ferodo pads in. no sign of fade or nothing, and boy i was stamping on them leaving braking later and later till i went straight on
luego-lo-cost finished,vauxhall 16v 2.0,twin 45s de-dion rear set up
|
|
|
tks
|
| posted on 9/10/05 at 05:01 PM |
|
|
mhhh
When you choose your brake setup there are many things that you should consider.
Offcourse the mass of the vehicle is important because it tells you how much energy you need to put in your disks when you want to stop.
But that takes us to the second stop...
what if i mount to big brakes on an to light car? would it brake? i think i wouldn't because every disc/pad combination needs heat to start
working.. and if you don't put in that heat in your disks...
then you cant use the full power of your pads!
also the servo, engine vacumm powered unit, gives us in an normal car an much better brake feeling, but i think its just because it make the brakes
sensitiver..
we push the pedal even hard at 2-mph and at 100mph but at 100 the car would brake harder because of the fact..that the servo unit helps you
pushing!
then another thing, the maximum brake force we have is also limited by the grip we have, and that means that we need good front grip (66,6% of brake
power)
it means width wheels! (disadvantage when it rainss!!!) for more contact surface, reason is we lower the pressure of the tire with the road...and then
the rubber coefficient gets better (its not the more weight, but the less weight that makes it stick at the road)
but in the rain we need the oposide! there is where we need pressure to push the water out of the tire and not to aquaplaning on it....
also the shocks/setup are very important when braking...they assure us that we keep contact with the road while braking....(how can we brake if we
don't fully touch the road???)
i had 2 different scrap calipers from the sierra 58 and 59,6mm piston (if i remmber)
that gave me just enough difference to pass an mot but i throw them away..
And brought an wilwood setup why?
- i could lower the weight of the car
- i could get 2 same NEW calipers
- i could mount 2 solid disks..(less heat required), and save more weight
- i would have an 4piston setup, and not an floating setup.
i think that 700Kgs is far to light to use normal sierra brakes, it would just need more time to come on temperature and when they are on temp..the
open wheel setup will cool it fast down.
and then we even not talk about in cold conditions ...like when it rains?
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
|
|
|
fastavatar.jpg){kind=avatar}
