David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 10:08 AM |
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How to bend a 7!
I thought I'd open this thread to separate it from some poor unfortunate's accident!
So I'll start again... 
Every year this forum sees all sorts of nasty accidents, so I thought I'd list a few possible reasons to help others avoid them:
1. Inappropriate wheels and/or tyres.
2. Wrong tyre pressures / suspension settings.
3. Inexperience with:
3a. RWD cars.
3b. Very high power-to-weight ratios.
3c. Seven-style handling (i.e. their tendency to bite if abused)
4. Over-exuberance.
5. Recklessness/Stupidity.
6. Bad decisions made in poor driving conditions.
7. Mechanical defects, which are more likely in a home-built car.
8. Outside influences - other drivers, diesel spills, etc.
9. Sheer bad luck.
In most accidents I've seen reported here, a selection of these factors played some part in the accident.
David
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muzchap
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 10:35 AM |
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Agreed!
But having a mate with a tow-truck and winch is certainly a necessity if owning a seven!
I would urge people to go to 'tracks' to push the car - at Bedford the worst thing that can happen is you fly onto some grass! On a public
road its gonna end in tears 
------------------------------------
If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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mookaloid
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 10:37 AM |
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One of the main problems with this type of car is that they are capable of much higher speed than it is possible to use safely on the public roads.
I for one, rarely use mine on the road now as I find it really frustrating.
The place to exploit the excellent performance and handling of our cars is on the track - whether it be on a track day, hill climb, sprint, race track
or drag strip. it's a lot more satisfying driving the car on the limit (of the car or the driver) on a track, than driving safely on a road well
within the car or drivers capabilities.
The situation is made worse by all the things mentioned by David.
Go easy (as we bikers say!)
cheers
Mark
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irvined
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 10:41 AM |
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Catastrophies are rarely caused by one big thing, its a combination of minor incidents accumulating.
Example, you overcook it a bit on a bend, that in itself isnt too big a deal, the arse kicks out, you steer into your skid, crap your pants and carry
on.
Except, if theres a bit if diesel on the road, you skid some more, then you find your tyre pressures are too high, and your suspension too stiff/soft
and dance a little, overcompensate, and because you've never driven a rear wheel drive car much before you end up having a close encounter with
a tree.
http://irvined.blogspot.com
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 11:47 AM |
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Yep! That about sums it up! 
Or, alternatively,
1. Match the wheels to the car.
2. Set up the car properly.
3. Work your way up to going fast, learning the way the car drives as you go.
4. Don't drive too fast on roads you don't know.
5. Think like a bike rider - watch out for dodgy road surfaces when going fast.
6. On public roads, back off if you're not sure.
7. If you want to go mental, go on a track day where it doesn't hurt so much when you fall off the black stuff.
I know I sound like a BOF, but crashing hurts! Especially when you've only just got the car on the road. And, if you're wondering, I do
tend to drive a bit faster than I should... fun, isn't it! 
David
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MikeR
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 12:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by irvined
Catastrophies are rarely caused by one big thing, its a combination of minor incidents accumulating.
Example, you overcook it a bit on a bend, that in itself isnt too big a deal, the arse kicks out, you steer into your skid, crap your pants and carry
on.
Except, if theres a bit if diesel on the road, you skid some more, then you find your tyre pressures are too high, and your suspension too stiff/soft
and dance a little, overcompensate, and because you've never driven a rear wheel drive car much before you end up having a close encounter with
a tree.
good job you missed the tree then 
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ned
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 12:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
4. Don't drive too fast on roads you don't know.
I would add to this - don't be complacent on roads you do know. some general statistic i heard about road accidents is that a high proportion of
them happen with 2 miles of where you live.
as said, follow this simple advice:
quote:
7. If you want to go mental, go on a track day where it doesn't hurt so much when you fall off the black stuff.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 12:41 PM |
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[4. Don't drive too fast on roads you don't know.
I would add to this - don't be complacent on roads you do know. some general statistic i heard about road accidents is that a high proportion of
them happen with 2 miles of where you live.
quote:
I think it was hitler that said "There are lies, damn lies and statistics." well what he actually said was probably something german....
but you get the idea.
I just wonder if those stats take into account that as a percentage the 2 miles near where you live is the most used, does that make sense?
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 12:49 PM |
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In my case, the place I'm most likely to have an accident is on the road to Paul G's (aka 907)!
Loads of twistly little roads, blind corners that change direction halfway round, and bleedin' 4x4s coming the other way! 
David
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Macbeast
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 02:05 PM |
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Don't think any of these are peculiar to Sevens: All of them (maybe except RWD ) apply to any car.
99/100 it's the nut holding the wheel that's responsible.
[Edited on 15/5/06 by Macbeast]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 02:11 PM |
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Absolutely!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 02:19 PM |
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Would add that a seven is a pretty forgiving car really as it lets go at a pretty slow speed, the tendency to "bite" is pretty low.
Cars with aerodynamic aids tend to be the nasty ones here, they give little or no warning when they let go.
As for road use, yep agreed it will be frustrating, but then a 7 is much better suited to it than many quick kit and/or other cars.
Take the Ultima for example. The demo car that we took to Le Mans last year was geared for just over 70mph in first gear and will clear that gear in
under 3 secs from a standing start with remarkably little effort..................................
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 02:28 PM |
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I think that the seven is a perfect car for modern day driving - great handling, loads of acceleration, really not a lot of use past 100mph (but there
are few places where you can do that anyway) but bags of fun.
Mine is a motorcycle substitute, after SWMBO put her foot down (just because I had an accident - or two. ).
David
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 05:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Macbeast
Don't think any of these are peculiar to Sevens: All of them (maybe except RWD ) apply to any car.
Just one comment, after a bit of thought...
Most ordinary tin-tops let you know when you're getting near the limit - squealing tyres, body roll, general out-of-shapeness. Sevens follow
the other pattern "ooh, this corners well... sticks like glue on that corner,,, and another corner ... ooooOOOh sh*t!!!". Or words to
that effect!
In my case, I've nearly sent mine off the road while accelerating in a straight line! Tail end started waggling, and I reckon it's only
many years of practice in assorted RWD cars that let me get away with it. Made me grin a bit afterwards though! I'm sure I worried the car
I was overtaking...
I know I've sounded preachy in some of my previous comments, but I really hate to hear stories of new seven owners who've visited the
scenery before they've learnt to drive them.
David
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SixedUp
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 06:44 PM |
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I had a couple of scarey moments in my car when I first got on the road, and that was with a standard pinto with only about 100bhp. As I learned the
car, and how to drive it, I improved, and things got a lot better.
Then, after a few years I added another 50bhp to the mix, and despite being a pretty easy-going driver, had a complete "stop the heart"
moment when I caught some oil on a corner. I still remember looking out the side of the car, with an arm-full of opposite lock, at the rapidly
on-coming lamppost, and thinking "I'm not going to ****ing walk away from this"
Fortunately I just (and I really do mean *just*) managed to catch it in time ... but the speed that things went wrong was unbelieveable. I'm
just glad no-one was coming the other way, as I didn't have anywhere to go but under them.
Since then I've done a defensive driving course, and the amount I learned about observation, and appropriate and inappropriate speed, and always
maintaining an escape route was a total revelation. Highly recommended. After all, it might just save your life.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 15/5/06 at 07:10 PM |
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Got home from work today, couldn't get onto drive.........
Jaguar with no front end, peugeot side swiped two fords a bit crumpled, straight road, dry, light 40mph limit, can happen too anyone cant it ?
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BKLOCO
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| posted on 16/5/06 at 09:33 AM |
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I think the thing that concerns me most is the fact that many of our younger builders have possibly never driven a rear wheel drive car. The handling
characteristics are so different between FWD and RWD that you allmost need to learn to drive them all over again.
Having spent most of my "sports"driving years in RWD (Mk1 Lotus cortina, Mk2 Savage Cortina, Triumph TR4 live axle TR6 IRS etc etc.) I was
suprised to find how different a clubman type car was the first time I drove one.
I guess at the end of the day it's all down to knowing your own limitations as well as those of the car.
Although I have done an advanced driving course I think I may in the future try a defensive course. The way road traffic is going it can only help
keep you out of trouble.
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!! 
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/5/06 at 09:36 AM |
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Where would you find a defensive driving course?
David
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BKLOCO
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| posted on 16/5/06 at 11:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Where would you find a defensive driving course?
David
HERE
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/5/06 at 12:22 PM |
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Hmm... £900 to spend 5 days in Birminham...
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BKLOCO
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| posted on 16/5/06 at 12:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Hmm... £900 to spend 5 days in Birminham...
Ok OK Put like that I'll grant you it doesn't sound that attractive.
But if I could get my company to pay.......
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!!
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flak monkey
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| posted on 16/5/06 at 12:32 PM |
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I think David's (not me, t'other one ) has raised some good points here. And I think I agree with everything that has been said.
You certainly wouldnt get away with some of the manouvres I have seen people do in FWD cars in a light RWD car. However there are times when RWD has
its advantages.
I'm quite lucky in the fact I have had chance to drive lots of different cars over the course of my rather short (compared to some on here)
driving experience. However I by no means intend to jump into a Locost and expect to be able to drive it, and will certainly be taking the first few
hundred miles rather steady! Last thing i want is an argument with a ditch (more common our way) after spending 2 years building a car...
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/5/06 at 11:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BKLOCO
I think the thing that concerns me most is the fact that many of our younger builders have possibly never driven a rear wheel drive car. The handling
characteristics are so different between FWD and RWD that you allmost need to learn to drive them all over again.
Having spent most of my "sports"driving years in RWD (Mk1 Lotus cortina, Mk2 Savage Cortina, Triumph TR4 live axle TR6 IRS etc etc.) I was
suprised to find how different a clubman type car was the first time I drove one.
I guess at the end of the day it's all down to knowing your own limitations as well as those of the car.
Although I have done an advanced driving course I think I may in the future try a defensive course. The way road traffic is going it can only help
keep you out of trouble.
Very true on the age/rwd thing.
I wouldn't drive anythibg else other than RWD or the rear biased 4x4 that I drive now.
I'm 28 and my brother is 24 and nearly every car that we have owned has been rwd, and considering that's certainly over 27 cars between us
that's not bad going!
Exception not the norm tho!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 17/5/06 at 07:35 AM |
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I'm getting annoyed now - first my reply got messed up, then the second attempt went AWOL. 
I'll try again - what I wanted to say is that RWD is my favourite configuration, but the only easily available one is the BMW and I don't
want one of them (nor can I afford a decent one).
I like that way that RWD cars don't really need power-assisted steering (it's just a luxury), it's easy to make a nice gearbox, and
it just feels right when driving. I hate the tendency to understeer that most FWD cars have - "going too fast into a corner? I don't
think I'll bother to go round it then..."
I much prefer oversteer to understeer, even though I know it's potentially more dangerous.
David
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russbost
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| posted on 18/5/06 at 12:36 PM |
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Reading many of the posts here suggests to me that many, particularly younger drivers have little or no RWD experience. A trip or 2 to the local
karting centre could save a fortune in mistakes on the road, whilst a Kart doesn't handle quite like a Seven it's not dissimilar. To
improve still further go to an outdoor karting centre when it's raining - they rarely seem to fit wets & a wet track on slicks will advance
your car handling skills very rapidly - or you'll want to give up entirely!!
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