ceebmoj
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 10:09 AM |
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push button gear change for sale
Hi as some of you may have seen form the other threads her I am building a digital dash and shift lights for some of the other builders hear. I am
well on in the development of theas items and built them in a manor so that they could be used on hi revving bike engines as that is what I plan to
use for my build.
However I got to thinking last night about a push button gear shift system with a display to tell you what gear you are in. anyway I wrote and tested
the code for this last night and will go to buy the hardware this weekend if any one is interested in such a device them I will complete the
development. The cost for every thing including the solenoids looks like being around 20 quid + P&P. The only thing you might need to do is extend
the leads to the solenoids to the from the control box.
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GJ Warren
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 10:26 AM |
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Hi, very interested, in both the dash and the gear change system, i was going to develop one myself, however not to clued up in this respect. Please
keep me updated. My e-mail is warren@orbit.net.mt. I reside in Malta but i'm more than ready to ship the items over . Hope to hear from you
soon.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 11:08 AM |
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Ceebmoj, if you can do it for that kinda money, there would be lots of people interested I'm sure.
Are you on the Yahoo BEC list yourself, if so, ask about interest on there, if not then gimme a shout and I'll post it on your behalf
Chris
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Jim
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 11:09 AM |
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Just sent you a u2u. very interested in push button shift. May be in two of them as have two Mk Blades in the family
Cheers
Jim
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 11:13 AM |
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no I am not on the yahoo bec page could you post up ther for me to you give me a link if you have to sine up could you post up fo me then when I have
a spar 5 mins I will join up
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GJ Warren
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 12:52 PM |
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what is the expected lead time on one of these systems. Are you putting in a mechanism for selection of neutral or will a solid linkage still be
required for this.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 12:59 PM |
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ceebmoj, link is Here, probably better if you post it yourself to be honest cos
otherwise they'll all ask me questions about it and I wont have the foggiest idea for an answer! 
Chris
[Edited on 20/5/03 by ChrisGamlin]
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 02:08 PM |
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To answer the questions
The lead time will be about two weeks for the following reasons
postage I have a prototype on my desk now witch I used to develop the code + hardware I will however not sell this device as it incorporates my PIC
development board.
So if I get a confirmed order I will go and buy the bits this weekend to build the first production model. Witch will take a couple of hours to put to
gether
What you get
You will receive 2 solenoids, one black box, some wires, one 7 segment led display and a CD.
The CD will contain the documentation for the device and a piece of software witch will allow you to tune the gear change to your likening i.e. adjust
the shift time and the auto down change at power on (described later).
installation
1. To install the device you mount the control box under the bonnet connect the red power lead to a fused on with first click of the key 12V supply
and connect the black wire to ground and plug the supply in to the control box.
2.Mount the up and down change buttons and run the cable back to the box and plug the connector in to the socket on the control box.
3.Mount the up and LED display and run the cable back to the box and plug the connector in to the socket on the control box.
1,2,3 may all use a common multi way plug not sure yet.
4. Mount the solenoids on a plate so one solenoid is either side of the gear change leaver on the bikes box and connect up the plug to the control
box.
Operation
When software operates in one of two modes. (feed back is apreasheated)
1. Basic mode when you turn the key a 0 apers on the display if you press the clutch and then press the up button the display will show a 1 and the
box will have changed in to first. If you pres the up button again the box will change up one gear and display 2 on the display. If you press the down
button the box will down shift and display 1 again pressing a second time will put you back in to neutral and display 0 on the display
2. Advanced mode in this operation the box will operate in exactly the same way for gear changing with one exception. When you switch on the ignition
the display will show a ‘C’ the driver the pushes the clutch peddle and then presses both the up and down buttons. The box will then automatically
down change 6 times to ensure the box is in neutral. 0 will then be displayed on the display and the system will work as described in 1.
I will not post a thread on another forum until the first person has received the device had a go with it then they can tell you all what they think.
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kingr
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 02:18 PM |
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Sounds great to me, I'll be wanting one once I've got a bike engine. One think I'd like to see as a feature it to be able to link it
to a rev limiter so that it changes up at rev limit.
Kingr
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 02:27 PM |
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as the control box has no control at present on the clutch and the box would need to change at the rpm when a clutchless change is posible.
also this would take longer to implement and I have a number of other projects on the list to compleat befor I would start on one that worked like
this.
However I have alltedy built a system that lights the leds as the rmp increases ala f1
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carnut
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 02:50 PM |
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Im interested in this gear change system too. Ill have one but id like to wait to see how other people get on with them. Sounds very good tho
especially for the price.
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carnut
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 02:51 PM |
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Can you make it to blip the throttle on the downshifts
?
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kingr
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 03:36 PM |
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It wouldn't have to be that complicated, there's a product called techtronics that will automatically blip the throttle when you upshift
(or downshift if you prefer, but not both without buying two), so it's just a case of getting it to bang it up a gear when suitable input is
recieved from the rev limiter, it could probably be done without any changes to your current system by just using a relay to close the upshift switch
circuit, but there's probably a neater way. Just a suggestion, all sounds great, and if it all works as well as it sounds, then you could be
selling quite a lot.
Kingr
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 03:59 PM |
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hi it would not be that hard to implement a clutch less system i.e. you push the up button or the down button and the system gets on with it however I
have some other projects I have to get done for other people before I can start on it but if that is wanted I will build one when I have finished the
digital dash system (or possibly integrate the functionality I to that).
I have got one confirmed order now so what I will do is get the item out to Jim and the let him install it e can then tell you all what he thinks give
me some feed back then I will make any necessary changes and put them up for all if you are still interested after you have herd what Jim has to say
about the device just watch this space for more information.
I will post some picks after the weekend and put up a proper instruction manual.
Some of you have been mentioning relays for the changing system. However I am using transistor (igfets) switching as it allows a faster switch time.
Also there are know moving parts to fail and the hole lot will be smaller.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 04:36 PM |
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ceebmoj, I am sure I posted this earlier but it doesnt seem to have happened...
Anyway, I hope Im not going to be a party pooper and spoil all this, but just bear in mind that a bike gearbox doesnt have neutral below 1st gear as
your description above regarding the basic/advanced change seems to suggest. IE its:
1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
Therefore, to get the solenoids to get to neutral, you need it to shift down 5 times (not 6), and then up half a shift to get neutral, as you can only
select neutral once you are in first, you cant come down to it from second, so makes the electronics a bit more fiddly than a simple straight up /
straight down configuration.
Chris
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GJ Warren
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 04:41 PM |
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Hi ceebmoj, for that price i want one too, how should i get the payment out to you, could you please check how much postage will cost to Malta, so i
can pay for this too. Thanx P.S. for an upsift a slight cut in power is required, one could link an input to the ECU of the bike which usually goes
to the stand swith this will cut the sparks and cause the moment of power drop required for clutchless up shifts, anyway just a thought, cant
experiment with this as i have a generic programable ECU not a bike unit.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 04:51 PM |
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Just adding to the above, the way a bike box is laid out, you will need to work out how to configure the buttons/controller so it knows when to
upshift from first into neutral, and when to upshift from first into second, and also how the digital gear indicator will keep track of it all.
A few guys have built their own gear indicators on the BEC list and I seem to recall it causing them headaches too, but Im not electronics wizz so
cant tell you why or how they overcame it Im afraid.
cheers
Chris
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 21/5/03 at 07:55 AM |
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So if you where in your car BEC car and pusing the change leaver forward changes up a gear and puling back is down a gear.
To get neutral from third you pull back three times then push forward once.
To get from neutral to third do you push the change leaver forw3ard three times or pull back once then push forward twice.
If some one could help me with this it would be greatly appreciated. The only BEC I have driven is the GT1 and I have no idea if I was ever in
neutral. I was grinning to much. All I did was change up and down the box a bit while being mightily impressed.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 21/5/03 at 08:48 AM |
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Hi ceebmoj, on my car, I pull back to go up a gear, push forward to go down a gear, the other way round to what you said above, but it doesnt
matter, Ill just explain it the way I do it on mine.
The gearbox is set out like this, as shown before
1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
To get From "3" to "N", I would push forward twice (A & B which is 3rd to 2nd, then 2nd to 1st) then pull back slightly to
then get into neutral (C)
..C
./...\
1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
.\____/.\../
.....B......A
Remember you can only ever get into neutral from 1st gear.
To get from "N" to "3", I would have to push forward once (A - to go into 1st) then pull back 2 times (B & C - into 2nd
then into 3rd).
..A
./...\
1 - N - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
.\____/.\../
.....B......C
As long as you pull back firmly when going from 1st to 2nd, you will miss Neutral. You cannot pull back from Neutral and go straight into second
either.
HTH
Chris
[Edited on 21/5/03 by ChrisGamlin]
[Edited on 21/5/03 by ChrisGamlin]
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 21/5/03 at 09:01 AM |
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Ok thanks a lot for the help that will be a quick change to the code this evening half an hour or so but not to bad thanks for taking the time to
explain it also probably means I never when in to neutral when driving the GT1.
As I am using solenoids to change the gear I will gust use a shorter pulse to get in to neutral from first.
I will leave the operation of the inter face the same i.e. If you are in neutral and want to get to 3rd press the up button 3 times. If you are in 3rd
and want to be in neutral press the down button 3 times. And the processor will just work the box as described above in your post.
The reason for doing this is it saves having to have some other input to select neutral.
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benedict
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| posted on 21/5/03 at 09:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Remember you can only ever get into neutral from 1st gear.
err, I'm pretty sure that I can get into N from 2nd on my ZX9, with the same
gentle touch that works going up from 1st.
Cheers,
Ben
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carnut
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| posted on 21/5/03 at 09:40 AM |
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i can also go from N to 2 on my x5 powered kart but its not somthing that i do very often if ever.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 21/5/03 at 10:03 AM |
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Hmm, you might be right then, I just always go into first (probably cos then you KNOW where neutral is), and then half a click back. I wont see the
car for a week or so to check it, so if someone can confirm this is the case on a blade too?
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Jim
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| posted on 21/5/03 at 10:21 AM |
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I can go into 2nd from neutral. Infact the first time I drove it I did this and wonder why it was a bit slow setting off
Jim
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 21/5/03 at 11:23 AM |
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Ah OK I was thinking the other way, as in 2nd gear into neutral, not sure if you can do this or not?
ceebmoj, probably best to program the changer not to allow second to be selected straight from neutral anyway tho, there is no reason you'd
wanna start off in second.
Chris
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