DIY Si
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 07:24 PM |
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GtR Chassis strength
Anyone know how strong the Spire GTr chassis is in terms of what Hp/lb ft in can handle, or a ball park figure? I'm thinking of doing something
silly with one and need to know the chassis will be up to it, either as standard of with some additional bracing.
[Edited on 16/10/06 by DIY Si]
 
Rescued attachment development1.jpg
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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ned
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 07:52 PM |
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looks like it needs a bucket load of triangulating to me. sorry that's not much help but with any engine be it big hp or not that picture could
do with diagonals added in most areas imho.
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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JoelP
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 07:56 PM |
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hard to guess without seeing the back end, where the magic happens. As ned says the front look a little barren, but that would mostly affect handling
rather than what power would make it crumple. 
I do like the high sides with the X in it though
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DIY Si
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 08:00 PM |
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I'm pretty confident I could add a fair amount to the chassis in terms of triangulation/extra bracing, possibly enough to deal with what I have
in mind. I'm thinking of doing something truly a bit silly (or so swmbo thinks) with it. Somehting 400+ on both important numbers! I don't
think I could sensibly make/design a chassis from scratch to cope with all that. Unless soemone has a suitable chassis plan up their sleave?
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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JoelP
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 08:19 PM |
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assuming that the spire chassis is jigged up well to start with, and you dont need to remove many tubes, its probably a good start. Adding bracing is
both fun and easy! lol.
what engine?!
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DIY Si
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 08:28 PM |
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It's something a little spicy, yet totally in standard form. I It's a 4.2 supercharged V8 from the jag XKR.
It has 408 lb ft as stock and 400 bhp!
Only bugger so far is sourcing a transaxle capable of delivering all of that, but I think I may have that covered. Just. Or, as long as i don't
tune the engine, something I find very hard to resist.
[Edited on 16/10/06 by DIY Si]
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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scutter
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 08:41 PM |
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How about binning the rice burner, You'll get reverse then aswell 
ATB Dan. See you tomorrow
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 08:46 PM |
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I'll be selling/am selling the Indy to help fund such a project. If I pick the right transaxle I could have 6 gears and backwards! Or just 4
forward gears and backwards if I have to use a strong Porsche 'box. I won't really be able to push this one around so easiyl, as
it'll probably weigh in at 600-650 kgs and have full body work. It should still give ~ 670 bhp/tonne!
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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scutter
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 09:22 PM |
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That should be enough top scare the Cr*p out of you
ATB Dan.
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 09:50 PM |
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Hopefully!
Oh, and I get a better sound track. But only 6.5-7 krpm.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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stevebubs
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 10:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
I'm pretty confident I could add a fair amount to the chassis in terms of triangulation/extra bracing, possibly enough to deal with what I have
in mind. I'm thinking of doing something truly a bit silly (or so swmbo thinks) with it. Somehting 400+ on both important numbers! I don't
think I could sensibly make/design a chassis from scratch to cope with all that. Unless soemone has a suitable chassis plan up their sleave?
If you want mid-V8 then other chassis options to consider:
MNR Titan
GD Lola
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stevebubs
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 10:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
I'll be selling/am selling the Indy to help fund such a project. If I pick the right transaxle I could have 6 gears and backwards! Or just 4
forward gears and backwards if I have to use a strong Porsche 'box. I won't really be able to push this one around so easiyl, as
it'll probably weigh in at 600-650 kgs and have full body work. It should still give ~ 670 bhp/tonne!
650kgs is still easily pushable - my Fury weighs in around 620...probably more with a full load of 50litres of gogo juice.
[Edited on 16/10/06 by stevebubs]
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DIY Si
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| posted on 16/10/06 at 10:50 PM |
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It's not the weight that's the problem so much, it's that the roll bar will be relatively inboard when compared with many. Unless I
fit a really massive roll cage, rather than a just massive one which I intend to use. The sills/side pods are best part of a foot wide and leaning
over and pushing could be a pain. And it'll have backwards anyway, so I might as well take advantage of having it!
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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NS Dev
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 08:21 AM |
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Porsche box will be no probs.
My mate at ultima uses them with 725 hp and 600+ lbft of torque, and they haven't broken in 15,000 miles behind that!
That one is a 5 speed G50, but the 6 speed getrag box is pretty tough too, fine for 500hp
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 09:09 AM |
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Do they use the G50, or the stronger (or so I've been told) G50-50 series of boxes? Given that you know a bloke (the MD?) at Ultima, do you know
if they've got any spare?
I didn't realise that the GD chassis and panel set is £4,600! For £3,000 I can get the chassis and body and wishbones from Spire, although I may
just make some wishbones to use the granada/cortina uprights.
[Edited on 17/10/06 by DIY Si]
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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NS Dev
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 09:54 AM |
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I can probably source a box for you (as long as you don't say where you got it from lol! ) but I doubt it will be cheap.
I think they charge £5000 for a brand new 6 speed (off the top of my head)
They get s/h G50's in fairly often so I will enquire for you, guess you will be looking at £1500 to £1800 for a goodun
I will ask about the various boxes bu as far as I know they either use the G50 or the 6 speed getrag. The G50 is no longer available new so all new
reg cars tend to have the 6 speed, which I think is not quite as strong, but then still takes 500hp and 500lbft with no trouble.
Will ask for you and let you know.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 09:59 AM |
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Crikey! That seems a bit more than I was expecting. Having read a fair bit on some of the GT40 sites, they seem to think the audi 016 box is capable
of 450+ lbft given a steel plate internally. What's better is you can get an old audi 100 for £200-300! I have to get any and all purchases past
the Boss, so if a cheaper option exists, that's prefered.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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NS Dev
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 10:04 AM |
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a lot of the v8 grassers use audi boxes and they seem to hold up ok, was going to suggest that one!
What Audis were the 016 boxes fitted to?
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 10:16 AM |
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As far as I can tell, the Audi 100 and the 5000, although I'm not sure if that's a european or american model. There are also different
gear ratios and final drives to suit various plans too. Not a clue which one is the most suitable though although the 3U version is talked about, but
again no idea which model it comes from.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 10:17 AM |
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This gives a good guide on gear ratios.
And this gives yet more info/ pics on the subject
[Edited on 17/10/06 by DIY Si]
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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Fred W B
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 11:26 AM |
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This is my mock up frame.
 
torsion test
I measured the torsional rigidity
 
df canamsa proto side pod
Torsional rigidity without side boxes = 2700 ft/lb/Deg
Torsional rigidity with side boxes = 5700 ft/lb/fl/Deg
[img][/img]
I put a transaxle contribution in your thread in "Engine and Trans"
Cheers
Fred W B
[Edited on 17/10/06 by Fred W B]
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 11:34 AM |
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Does anybody have contact details for the Spire?
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Gav
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 11:40 AM |
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Spire Sports Cars
[Edited on 17/10/06 by Gav]
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DIY Si
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| posted on 17/10/06 at 10:36 PM |
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Fred, how are you going to fit the engine in there? Otherwise looks roughly simialr to what I want to achieve, but I don't feel able to sort all
the suspension mounts/placing on my own, as I don't know enough about suspension geo set ups yet.
Will the final chassis look much different from that? Do you intend upping the power/changing the engine in the future, or waht power do you think
your chassis could deal with?
[Edited on 17/10/06 by DIY Si]
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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Fred W B
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| posted on 18/10/06 at 05:40 AM |
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WRT getting the engine in, the rear top section of the frame bolts on, see more discussion
here
WRT engine power, who knows?
Looking at this list though, with 5700 ftlb/Deg it would seem that it could take quite a lot?
For comparison I list several other chassis figures, obtained from various sources on the internet, particularly contributors to
www.locostbuilders.co.uk
Ultima - 3300 ftlb/Deg (coupe) and 2500 ftlb/Deg (spyder)mass 135 kg,
Lotus 23 - 1500 ftlbs/Deg, 45 kg
Lotus 7 replica, "locost book" spec - 1200 ftlbs/Deg, 82 kg
Lotus 7 replica, uprated "cymtriks" spec - 2540 ftlbs/Deg, 78 kg
Lotus Elise - 7350 ftlbs/Deg,
Lamborghini Countach - 1900 fp/degree.
Ferrari 360 spider - 6250 fp/degree.
Lotus Elan: 5,000 - lb-ft/deg
Porsche 959 - 9,500 lbs-ft/deg
Lotus Esprit SE Turbo - 4,300 lbs-ft/deg
GTD Lola T70 replica - 3300 ft/lbs per degree.
Cheers
Fred WB
[Edited on 18/10/06 by Fred W B]
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