mranlet
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| posted on 13/6/03 at 06:41 PM |
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Mondeo and other FWD cars as donor
Hey all--
I'm doing some major deviation from the Locost design, so I'm going to have to use whatever I can get my hands on. I have several
different frame designs ready to go depending on if the final layout is to be a longitudinal engined w/ RWD, Transverse mount w/ AWD, X-verse mount w/
FWD, and Long mount w/ AWD...
What draws me here (besices a love of SVT's) is that I know of a Mondeo (Contour here in the US) that got hit by a snow plow in the back half,
but still has excellent running motor and MTX.
To get to the business part--would I be able to turn the motor 90 degrees CW, run the linkage that went to the Left wheel into a small differential
and into the front wheels, and run the cross-engine link to the Right wheel into a prop/driveshaft which will power the rear differential. The linkage
will not be a problem, but I need to know if there would be a way to control the manual transmission when the motor is turned like that...
If this setup will NOT work, I'll have to find out about having AWD with a transverse mounted motor. I doubt that this setup will get me the
50/50 weight distribution that I am hoping for, but it would at least get me the AWD that I want.
In case anyone else wants to know, the car is to have a 1.5" and 2" tubular semi-monocoque tub frame and pushrod/coilover suspension all
around. Whether with the origional motor or not, the tuning goal is 500hp and the weight is to be less than 1500lbs and close to 50/50 weight
distribution.
Thanks for any input in advance!!
-MR
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 13/6/03 at 10:31 PM |
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I think this idea has been discussed, but I cant remember what the outcome was!
People use the mondeo / contour in RWD cars by using the type 9 box from other fords - the sierra.
It bolts up, but im not sure of the details like clutch - although people on this forum should be able to help.
There is a version of the type 9 with a 'bolt on' bit added to allow a shaft to go forwards to power a front axle - in other words a four
wheel drive setup.
There was a pic posted about a month ago of what this looks like.
try using the search function - or dig around in relevant sections here and you will find it.
Also, try asking Liam or Ewan Spence (see member list) cos they are also using this box.
It was fitted to the sierra XR4x4 - not sure if its fitted to the Merkur (which was a 2.3 version of sierra in USA) bit you could find out. If you are
trying to do a 4wd car, it might be hard to get a 4wd type 9 in USA...... if so, it may be possible to find a company in UK who will ship it sea
freight for you, if it looks interesting enough.
hope that in some way helped!
atb
steve
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Alan B
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| posted on 14/6/03 at 01:10 AM |
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mranlet,
Yeah that's been done...turning a FWD unit 90 degrees and running shafts forward and back to seperate diffs.
One major problem, although not for the applications I've seen, is ultra low gearing...don't forget you'll have the drive going
through 2 sets of reduction....one in the FWD transaxle and one more at each diff..
The application I've seen this done is in off-road vehicles, hunting buggies etc........(for gators, frogs, wild hogs, etc)
So yes, it can and has been done......but needs work for road use...or great expense....
HTH
Alan
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andyps
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| posted on 14/6/03 at 09:25 AM |
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I don't know how it is done (never looked at the oily bits) but the Jag X type is basically a 4wd mondeo, the latest one however.
Pretty sure it has a transverse engine but it is certainly the mondeo engine and presumably gearbox etc.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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carnut1100
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| posted on 14/6/03 at 11:50 AM |
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Practical Classics magazine is covering a restoration af a Lotus Elan 2+2 with a Mondeo engine conversion. It does not look very hard.
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Noodle
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| posted on 14/6/03 at 06:38 PM |
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The Mondeo was available in the UK for a while with transverse engine 4WD layout. An interesting derivation was evaluated for the BTCC with transverse
engine/rear drive but shelved because of the weight penalties for RWD vehicles.
4WD's not available on the current Mondeo, becaUse as Andy says, it's now called a Jaguar X-type.
Other transverse engined 4WD systems should be plentiful and cheap as with the exception of the Integrale and Mitsubishi EVO series, they were never
particulary good. (Peugeot 405/Citroen BX/Corolla etc)
HTH
Neil.
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andyps
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| posted on 14/6/03 at 11:10 PM |
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I had forgotten about that odd BTCC car, I suspect ford wish they could too!!
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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mranlet
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| posted on 16/6/03 at 03:50 PM |
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Wow, thanks for all this help guys.
Alan B - what does the shift linkage look like when a x-verse engine is turned? Does the torque remain evenly distributed bewteen front and rear
differentials, or would I need a Quaife limited slip?
Carnut - where couldd I find this "practical classics" restoration? I tried looking on google but there was too much to sift through.
In general - I think if I were to keep the X-verse setup I will probably make the car FWD for now until I get enough money to transplant a Mitsubishi
4G63 w/ AWD from the Lancer or US Eclipse GSX, or import a SR20DET from a Japan spec Pulsar GTi-R.
I was hoping that I might be able to have a longitudinal mounting for the reasons of weight being closer to the roll axis, being able to position the
motor more centrally in the car, and the ability to drop in the RB26DETT from the Japan spec Skyline GT-R (dyno'd ar 320hp out of the box and
easily capable fo 750+hp).
Basically, I'd like to just get this thing on the road and hammer out any problems before I spend too much money on it. My time for building
this is also limited, so ease of assembly will probably become important (I'm even using the existing front control arms, [modified] brakes, and
spindles from an AWD ATV)
As has been said before, the more I deviate from Ron's design, the more problems I'll run into, so the Long. mounting is preffered even
moreso.
Would anyone know where I could get some 1:1 differentials for cheap?
Thanks again for all the help!
-MR
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Noodle
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| posted on 17/6/03 at 09:25 AM |
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I've been wracking my brains to figure out why you'd want to make it FWD.
Got me beaten there. 
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liftarn
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| posted on 17/6/03 at 11:20 AM |
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FWD is interesting
I have been playing with the idea of a FWD Locost easlier. I was thinking of something along the front part of the Hudson Spirit cars and the Locost
rear.
Purists may not like FWD in a sports car, but I come to think of the Saab Sonett. The early version even had a two stroke engine (later replaced with
a V4).
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mranlet
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| posted on 17/6/03 at 07:14 PM |
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Well, it's not going to be FWD for good...
I DO enjoy the FWD sports cars like the Acura Integra, Dodge Neon SRT-4, and Japaneese Mitsubishi FTO--for me it's the difference in driving
style that is nescessary to make a FWD car handle well.
However, for this project I would only be using the engine from a FWD car since they're much more readily available than RWD cars. The only way
that I'd have the car be FWD is just to finish the biuld to the point of being roadworthy, after it it self powered I'll transplant the
transverse FWD setup with a transverse AWD setup. Other factors are that some of the best low-displacement engines are found in cars that have FWD
and AWD trim levels (American Lancer, Older Subarus, DSM Eclipse/Talon/Laser, Toyota Celica, etc)
If I can make the car RWD and then adapt it to be AWD, that would be the much prefered route...
-MR
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Alan B
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| posted on 18/6/03 at 06:37 PM |
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quote:
Alan B - what does the shift linkage look like when a x-verse engine is turned? Does the torque remain evenly distributed bewteen front and rear
differentials, or would I need a Quaife limited slip?
Can't recall the linkage, but it would be very easy with cables....the one I saw was an auto I think.
The diff. will act as any regular diff. I guess and adjust speeds as required by the loading/geometry/wheel sizes etc.....i.e. not equal torque...(I
think)...
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