andrenel
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 07:15 PM |
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roll cage -- trackdays
I am wanting to install a roll bar on my bulid, for asthetics I am thinking of using 60 mm aluminum tube with a + 4mm wall thickness. I have found
someone who can bend it for me.
Reading an article in haynes book, it said that for racing you need a steel roll bar, with back stays and some other specs I cannot recall offhand.
my question is, is a track day, governed by the same rules as racing,
i.e must the roll bar be constructed from steel or do you in fact need one at all.
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blakep82
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 07:21 PM |
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as long as your car is road legal its ok for a track day. (in fact, as far a i know, it doesn't have to have an MOT, but there will be a
scruitineer to check it over)
I personally wouldn't be happy with aluminium tube.
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rj
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 07:34 PM |
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Alluminium roll cages were permited in rallying up to about 15 years ago, they then got banned, can't remmember the reason, I suggest you do
some research about strengths of different grades, as some are soft as s**t
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skydivepaul
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 08:04 PM |
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you dont need one for a track day unless you are running slicks (they organisers might be interested if you are running sticky rubber like r888 or
a048 without a roll bar) they would only advise you to get a roll bar fitted.
That said, when the sh1t hits the fan would you rather have:
1: an aluminium roll bar protecting your head
or
2: a steel roll bar with back stays and cross bracing
i choose number 2
[Edited on 16/9/07 by skydivepaul]
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nitram38
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 08:10 PM |
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Aluminium tends to fracture on inpact as it is a crystaline metal, whereas steel will bend distort and tend to absorb the forces
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higgsti
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 08:40 PM |
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having been in a westfield as a passenger which was involved in a passenger side minor impact i wouldnt venture on road with anything less than rac
spec roll bar never mind race circuit.my car has a full cage
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 09:24 PM |
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quote:
as long as your car is road legal its ok for a track day. (in fact, as far a i know, it doesn't have to have an MOT, but there will be a
scruitineer to check it over)
I spoke to a guy with a race fiesta this weekend who told me that open trackdays at knockhill were going to be for road legal cars only. Don't
know if it's true yet but if it is then a fair few folk with properly prepared cars are gonna be well pee'd off. It will however get rid
of the chavs with £50 quid cars from the mid week markets.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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andrenel
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 09:53 PM |
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cheers and thanks for that,
I dont see myself on a track every weekend, but would like to take the car there once, just for the experiance.
Its a lot cheaper and easier to use steel to fabricate, but I was looking forward to the challange of producing a nice sturdy aluminum bar, ( with
Back stays and diagonal ) and integrating some fittings for weather gear into this.
Will have to rethink my plans, I suppose I could get the steel plastic coated to improve appearance
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jambojeef
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 10:57 PM |
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Hey Andre!
Car looks really good, looking forward to seeing it in the metal!
Nothing wrong with an aluminum roll bar, make it out of anything you like but as the guy who made mine for me said when i asked for it to be slanted
forward a bit so it looked all nice like the caterhams "roll bars arent there to look nice"...he may have had a point.
The reason that aluminium cages / bars arent FIA approved isnt that they cant take peak loads but rather that after repeated load cycling they will
fail. The worst case scenario is a multiple roll where the work done on the cage causes failure before the occupants have got to safety.
Of course, depending on the type and application of the cage, there could be some load cycling going on during normal driving, and so weakening the
structure before its even called upon as it were.
So i reckon its gotta be steel
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blakep82
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 11:05 PM |
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you can even get some spray paint that looks near enough like aluminium
________________________
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blakep82
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| posted on 16/9/07 at 11:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
quote:
as long as your car is road legal its ok for a track day. (in fact, as far a i know, it doesn't have to have an MOT, but there will be a
scruitineer to check it over)
I spoke to a guy with a race fiesta this weekend who told me that open trackdays at knockhill were going to be for road legal cars only. Don't
know if it's true yet but if it is then a fair few folk with properly prepared cars are gonna be well pee'd off. It will however get rid
of the chavs with £50 quid cars from the mid week markets.
i wonder how they draw the line on this. take my car for example. yes, it was originally built, and the chassis has been used for racing, but
i'm not going to ever race it. if i took it to knockhill it would look like a race car, but would really be only a road car...
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 17/9/07 at 08:46 AM |
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Ive only ever done 2 trackdays at Teesside with Ne7ers. On both occasions we were advised road legal was required, but ive never had docs checked.
Plenty of lads have ran slicks with no cage. The mnarshalls are fairly easy going at Teesside though (makes for a great day) Therefore i think its
fair to say a cage is down to personal preference on std trackdays.
Id go for steel. If weight is the consideration what about T45?
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Big Daz
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| posted on 17/9/07 at 08:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
I spoke to a guy with a race fiesta this weekend who told me that open trackdays at knockhill were going to be for road legal cars only. Don't
know if it's true yet but if it is then a fair few folk with properly prepared cars are gonna be well pee'd off. It will however get rid
of the chavs with £50 quid cars from the mid week markets.
Yes and No,
Knockhill track days now require a valid MOT, but for track only cars you can get a Knockhill scrutineering certificate (£25 IIRC) and this lasts a
year - same as an MOT. I believe this has been in place for most of this year.
Daz
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Hammerhead
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| posted on 17/9/07 at 09:01 AM |
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you can chrome steel so that it looks like brushed stainless steel. Think it's called nishine finish.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 24/9/07 at 12:40 PM |
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If you're worried about the weight of steel, get it made in T45 steel which is a lot lighter for a given strength.
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jamestziros
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| posted on 25/9/07 at 08:00 AM |
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I have gone for the T45 steel tube, like the other post, I'd rather be in one peice in case something does happen. Seems that may be more likely
on the road than on the track. Especially from the old side impact.
I got my T45 (Seemless) from Elmdon Metals/Winged Aviation - they send certification with the material & a chap in Uxbridge bent it for me
according to a jig I made up. U2U me if you want contacts.
I think there are some pics in my archive. It add quite a bit of weight but - hey - nout you can do about that.
As it has already been said - Alluminium is not worth thinking about - you only get one roll - if that...!
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