Gremlin
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 posted on 26/6/02 at 11:54 AM |
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New locost builder seeks engine advice!
I am new to locosts and am looking at getting a donor car or engine etc. I would like to produce a car which i intend you use on the road and possibly
trial. I want it to be quite nippy but dosent have to be stupidly over powered. Can anyone give me some suggestions on the best engines to look at for
a first timer!
Thanks in advance. 
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 26/6/02 at 02:59 PM |
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Virtually any engine will blow off a normal road car.
It depends on how fast you want to accellerate, and how old you are - i.e, insurance.
A normalish road car has a power ratio of around 100hp / tonne. A jag V12 is a bit better than 160 hp/tonne and a car like a mondeo is about 100 hp
/tonne.
A locost can be fitted with a whole loada engines. Lets take a standard Sierra 1600 as a basline. it has 75 hp.
A locot generally weighs between 500 and 650 kilos. Lets say 600 here.
That gives you a bhp / tonne of 125. My mazda 323f was about that, and did about 8 secs to 60.
Now take a bog standard sierra 2 litre. Generally about 100hp. that gives you 166 bhp / tonne. Starts to get interesting, no?
Something like a ford xflow from a mk2 escort is about 60 - 70hp.
If you are a speed freak like Mr Ison, then you use a bike engine, and tune it. Jon claims 158 hp. I recon his car is less than 500 kilos. So, that
gives a power to weight of 316 friggin horsepoer per tonne. that beats a ferrari 355 which is about 280!!!!
So, what donor were you considering?
atb
steve
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Gremlin
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| posted on 26/6/02 at 03:55 PM |
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I was looking at a 2000cc sierra ohc pinto engine. I want it to be around the 5-6sec o-60 really as i have a calibra 4x4 turbo which is 6.4 sec.
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Simon
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| posted on 26/6/02 at 04:09 PM |
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Hi Guys,
Two Suzuki Hayabusa engines.
Both turbocharged.
Approx 420 bhp each.
840 bhp total.
Let's say car slightly lardy at 550kgs.
1520 BHP/TONNE.
Suit you Sir!!
ATB
Simon
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 26/6/02 at 09:02 PM |
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Are you building your own chassis ? if so i would suggest you go out n find yourself a 2000cc Cortina, you will have every bit of running gear you
need including front uprights n brakes......thats wot i did,
then junk the pinto n do a proper job... 
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Gremlin
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 09:42 AM |
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Simon Not sure if thats a good or bad idea just make sure you have good brakes and life insurance.
What is wrong with the pinto engine i thought it was a good engine and highly tuneable and safer than cvh?
Any other reasonable suggestions? 
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Nick Davison
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 11:04 AM |
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The Pinto and Mk9 box are a good combination but heavy and tall. It can be tuned reasonably to 160+hp but will cost up to £1000 for that.
All depending on what your cash situation is there are loads of high performance engines arround. A good choice would be the 1600TC Toyota from the
MR2 about 115hp as standard 3/4 the weight of a Pinto, shorter, revs like mad, tuneable just by electronics to 200hp and reliable. The only drwdack
is you would need an adaptor for the bell housing. RAW Engineering do one for £300 and they also do the ECU to change the mapping in the ignition.
If you want a real pain in the a*** then try a Lancia 2.0L Turbo!
Nick
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 11:53 AM |
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Problem there is the price. Might be a cheap engine, but Raw were asking something like 600 for the engine, and a fair bit more for a management
system to go with it, on top of the adaptor....
Now a Suzuki G13B, there's cheap power.....
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Nick Davison
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 03:28 PM |
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£600 for one of them! Watch this space in the morning I may be able to sort one out a load cheaper than that, including the wiring loom, ECU,
body,wheels etc.
I was saving it as a backup for my attempt on the Lancia but probably will not use it.
Nick
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macspeedy
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 03:32 PM |
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I am thinking of using a V-tec engine I've heard the 1.6 has 160 bhp standard but the problem with the v-tec its transverse not a problem it's self
but if you were to connect it normaly it will run the car very fast backwards to get over this i'm thinking of turing the diff upside down, but the
problem then is were do you get a bell housing from... but they are smashing engines rev upto 9 tho standard.
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Gremlin
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 03:48 PM |
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Ok thanks people. Im still not 100% which to go for. I just want a cheep one at first its my first attempt and i want to inisially check im capable of
building one! Is there a specific engine or two which stand out as being reliable and easier to fit than the others.
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bob
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 04:10 PM |
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Gremlin
there is nothing wrong with the pinto,in fact it is a very tune-able engine.
Only one downside,its a bit tall so a shallow sump is called for and the oil filler is normally blanked and moved to the rear end of the cam cover.
P.S they are as cheap as chips mate
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Alan B
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 04:26 PM |
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quote:
I am thinking of using a V-tec engine I've heard the 1.6 has 160 bhp standard but the problem with the v-tec its transverse not a problem
it's self but if you were to connect it normaly it will run the car very fast backwards to get over this i'm thinking of turing the diff upside
down, but the problem then is were do you get a bell housing from... but they are smashing engines rev upto 9 tho standard.
Yes, this would work, but it wouldn't last. You'd be asking all the gears in the gearbox to run the opposite way to what they were designed, and
more often than not it matters due to thrust etc.
Then you'd be asking the diff to run in the opposite direction, like being in reverse all the time They also are designed to be run mainly in one
direction.
When off-road racers uses Honda engines they often mate them to "reverse-rotation" built VW based transaxles which allow for the different thrust
loadings for this reason.
I know you were only considering this, but it is a topic that does come up now and again.
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 27/6/02 at 05:17 PM |
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quote:
Ok thanks people. Im still not 100% which to go for. I just want a cheep one at first its my first attempt and i want to inisially check im
capable of building one! Is there a specific engine or two which stand out as being reliable and easier to fit than the others.
Crossflows, for being compact and simple, with non of that sump modifying cobblers.
A pinto if you are building an IRS car, as it'll doubtless come free with the donor car.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Gremlin
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| posted on 28/6/02 at 08:41 AM |
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Thanks the other option was to go for a 1600cc X flow as they to are reasonably tuneable I have heard. Is there a second set off updated chassis
designs if I want to build the IRS car and do they include mods to lower the engine or just the back suspension?
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 28/6/02 at 10:10 AM |
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Nope, there aren't any IRS plans around as far as I know. If you want IRS, then you're better off buying a chassis in my opinion.
You're right about the Xflow BTW.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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StuartA
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 posted on 28/6/02 at 11:15 AM |
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The 1600 XFlow is probably the safest option, coz the 1300 engine was what the original concept was designed around (unless I am much mistaken). Only
problem we found was that the 1600 are very thin on the ground, unless you want to buy one that someone else had fiddled with. Then you have to trust
that they did it right!
We have settled for a Zetec unit, but it looks like it might be a little costly and we are still having trouble with the mounts (see other thread...
somebody help please!!!!)
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Colin AH
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| posted on 28/6/02 at 02:29 PM |
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The Tiger chassis can be IRS, their book with plans in it should be out soon. Amazon are taking advance orders.
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 28/6/02 at 04:13 PM |
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Colin, I've had the book on order with Veloce since April, don't hold you're breath, they reckon mid July now
As for rare crossflows, why not try the Valencia Escort? there's a shed load of them in mk3 form in the yards down here.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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Gremlin
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| posted on 28/6/02 at 11:32 PM |
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How about the 1600 pinto or is X flow better? Still really stuck on engines at the moment. Something simple but nippy and cheap as possible!
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Fatboy Dave
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| posted on 29/6/02 at 12:13 PM |
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Well, given the option, I'd have to say 1600 XF on a five speed box, as the pinto is just too heavy for the power output. It'll still be nippy
whatever the engine (the 1600 is also shorter than the 2000), but the XF seems like making the best of free power by lessening the weight.
Dave
Stop the planet, I want to get off
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PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.
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macspeedy
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| posted on 30/6/02 at 04:43 PM |
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Thanks for the feed back found this site great info on locost engines http://www.btinternet.com/~megatron/locost-engine-main.htm
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