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New Build - 1st time builder! cheap and quick

MatthewHorton - 30/4/15 at 11:29 AM

Hi everyone,

i just thought i'd start a thread for my build. Im planning to build it as per the book in 6 months. I don't know if its possible but hopefully you lot can keep me in accountable! I want to avoid even the thought of upgrading anything until it is built. i don't want any distractions and thats why i'm limiting my options and building it as per the book.

anyway, I'm off the hopefully buy the donor sierra today. its got a 1.8 cvh engine which is slightly annoying. i would have preferred a pinto but if i waited for one of them then i might be waiting forever.

i"ll take some pictures when i get it home!

matt

Edwardo - 30/4/15 at 11:36 AM

Good luck Matt! Wish I'd gone for a Haynes Roadster now - Ahhhhh hindsight.

Will be interested to see your build and whether you manage it in the 6 months

Cheers
Tony

whitestu - 30/4/15 at 11:59 AM

I built mine with a 1.8 CVH and it is a really easy engine to install and get running, and has plenty of power.

If you are planning to install a Zetec after SVA the 1.8 CVH also makes this easy as the Zetec is a development of the 1.8 CVH, so the exhausts are interchangeable with a bit of fettling and the CVH flywheel also can be made to fit and is really light.

Stu

Surrey Dave - 30/4/15 at 01:39 PM

Nothing like as bad as you would be led to believe, got to be shorter than a Pinto too?

1.8CVH bike carbs + megajolt = surprising!!!

[Edited on 30/4/15 by Surrey Dave]

jps - 30/4/15 at 03:27 PM

Good luck - I thought it might take me a couple of years - that was 3 years ago and to the untrained eye I have made very little progress (to the trained eye it's not much better!!!)

I think the CVH engine went into the Mk3 RS Turbo - so can't have been all that bad surely...?

I got a Pinto in my Sierra - 1.6 and apparently good for 69bhp when new. I expect some horses have escaped since 1985, so I would not complain too much!!!

Surrey Dave - 30/4/15 at 03:54 PM

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MatthewHorton - 30/4/15 at 05:21 PM

so here is the donor car!

donor car before purchase

at home

donor at home bonnet up

i dont have space to store the whole shell so i plan to strip it for parts in one go! (obviously, thoroughly labelling as i go!) what tools would people recommend for getting parts off/out?

[Edited on 30/4/15 by MatthewHorton]

Angel Acevedo - 30/4/15 at 06:12 PM

Welcome to the nut house.
There´s a member here that has a signature that reads:
You can do it quick, you can do it well, you can do it cheap.... PICK TWO!!
Good luck with the build... I´ve been at it for seven years, two of them lost to a Back injury and the other two to the corresponding mess and neglect the shop was subject to during the first two.... So, all in all 3 years actual building...
Pretty fun process though... for me one of the most enjoyable hobbies...
Angel Acevedo

MatthewHorton - 30/4/15 at 06:40 PM

haha so true! mine is going to look like a rat rod! and i embrace that! hopefully it should still be 95% the driving experience!

907 - 30/4/15 at 07:03 PM

I have always said that the quickest way with anything is to do it right first time.

Good luck with your build
Paul G

jacko - 30/4/15 at 07:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MatthewHorton
haha so true! mine is going to look like a rat rod! and i embrace that! hopefully it should still be 95% the driving experience!

If you are doing rat-rod save time and just drive the sierra

Only kidding good luck with the build but make sure you use the 2nd addition how to build a car as there are changes to the first book
jacko

MatthewHorton - 30/4/15 at 07:36 PM

quote:

make sure you use the 2nd addition how to build a car as there are changes to the first book

I did not know there was a second edition! i'll have to check which one I've got. Do you know what the differences are?

MatthewHorton - 30/4/15 at 08:06 PM

I'm going down a rabbit hole now and reading the forum and reading about caster angle being incorrect in the book design??

big_wasa - 30/4/15 at 08:48 PM

That's easy to sort, until you find the nice 2.25" shock absorbers you buy barley clear.

The smallest changes will have knock on affects.

Good luck

CosKev3 - 30/4/15 at 08:49 PM

You could do it in 6 months if you don't work for a living and have nothing else to spend your time doing?(wife/kids/family )

Good luck with the build, but imo you will do well to have it road worthy this time next year

mark chandler - 30/4/15 at 09:26 PM

As you are making it treat the book as a guide, make the wishbones then use these to align for caster (top bone at its outer edge set back around 10mm from the lower bone) and tack the brackets then position the shock.

As big Wasa states, 2 1/4" shocks are tight so just make the bones a bit wider if worried about this, also shocks take 1/2" bolts so do not use metrics.

My preference is the original book, the car is smaller if I was to make again I would reduce even more and make narrower!

Rosco86 - 30/4/15 at 09:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MatthewHorton
I'm going down a rabbit hole now and reading the forum and reading about caster angle being incorrect in the book design??

Good luck, im hopeing to be done in 12-14 months, i started last october so see how it gos, is the caster issue with the haynes roadster then? I thought it was just early mk indys, also first ive heard about the shocks being close!!

Barkalarr - 30/4/15 at 10:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MatthewHorton
Hi everyone,

i just thought i'd start a thread for my build. Im planning to build it as per the book in 6 months. I don't know if its possible but hopefully you lot can keep me in accountable! I want to avoid even the thought of upgrading anything until it is built. i don't want any distractions and thats why i'm limiting my options and building it as per the book.

anyway, I'm off the hopefully buy the donor sierra today. its got a 1.8 cvh engine which is slightly annoying. i would have preferred a pinto but if i waited for one of them then i might be waiting forever.

i"ll take some pictures when i get it home!

matt

If you want a quick start to your Haynes build, I know where there is a chassis which has been tacked together and just need welding. It will cost you less than buying the steel as the bloke just wants the space back.

splitrivet - 1/5/15 at 06:54 AM

Matt if you want to sell the door cards and some of the interior of your donor give me a shout, need them to finish my P100.
Cheers,
Bob

mcerd1 - 1/5/15 at 08:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jps
I think the CVH engine went into the Mk3 RS Turbo - so can't have been all that bad surely...?

The RS turbo engine is a 1.6 setup for FWD, its got surprisingly few parts in common with the sierra's 1.8 motor...

You could tune up the CVH, there are still plenty of 1.8/1.9 Westfields around, but as above the swap to the more modern zetec doesn't get any easier and they are so cheap that it's silly not to give them serious thought

I'd say stick with the stock CVH for now (nice easy emissions test at the IVA, and can count towards an age related plate if you don't want a Q plate for some reason)
Then swap to a 1.8 or 2.0 zetec later on

The 1.8 blacktop zetecs are nice revvy engines that only need a set of cams to get nearly the same power as the 2.0 and they are a fair bit cheaper too

[Edited on 1/5/2015 by mcerd1]

MatthewHorton - 1/5/15 at 08:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
That's easy to sort, until you find the nice 2.25" shock absorbers you buy barley clear.

so if i follow the book design then will 2.25 shocks fit with more clearance?

MatthewHorton - 1/5/15 at 08:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
As big Wasa states, 2 1/4" shocks are tight so just make the bones a bit wider if worried about this, also shocks take 1/2" bolts so do not use metrics.

thanks for the tips. so i just need to make sure the top of the upright is in the correct place and im free to make the wishbones wider without affecting anything else?

MatthewHorton - 1/5/15 at 08:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by splitrivet
Matt if you want to sell the door cards and some of the interior of your donor give me a shout, need them to finish my P100.
Cheers,
Bob

hi bob, if you want to come down and help me get them out and maybe some other bits out then you can have my spare bits that you need! help is more important to me than the cash!

MatthewHorton - 1/5/15 at 08:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1

quote:
Originally posted by jps
I think the CVH engine went into the Mk3 RS Turbo - so can't have been all that bad surely...?

You could tune up the CVH, there are still plenty of 1.8/1.9 Westfields around, but as above the swap to the more modern zetec doesn't get any easier and they are so cheap that it's silly not to give them serious thought

I'd say stick with the stock CVH for now (nice easy emissions test at the IVA, and can count towards an age related plate if you don't want a Q plate for some reason)
Then swap to a 1.8 or 2.0 zetec later on

The 1.8 blacktop zetecs are nice revvy engines that only need a set of cams to get nearly the same power as the 2.0 and they are a fair bit cheaper too

[Edited on 1/5/2015 by mcerd1]

cheers, this is nice to know!

jacko - 1/5/15 at 05:00 PM

I have been thinking about this all day and realised you are using a sierra back axle but the ron champion book is for a beam axle
jacko

PorkChop - 1/5/15 at 08:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
I have been thinking about this all day and realised you are using a sierra back axle but the ron champion book is for a beam axle
jacko

This is what's confusing me slightly. I thought that were plans to fit the Sierra IRS to a Locost, but these weren't official plans.

So are we talking about the book written by Ron Champion or Chris Gibbs?

MatthewHorton - 1/5/15 at 10:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PorkChop

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
I have been thinking about this all day and realised you are using a sierra back axle but the ron champion book is for a beam axle
jacko

This is what's confusing me slightly. I thought that were plans to fit the Sierra IRS to a Locost, but these weren't official plans.

So are we talking about the book written by Ron Champion or Chris Gibbs?

Im building the haynes roadster! sorry i didn't make that clear! its the Chris Gibbs book! i dont know if that make some previous comments irrelevant?

splitrivet - 2/5/15 at 08:12 AM

Matt u2u me when youve got the motor and when youre ready to strip it. I'll gladly give you a hand to strip it it return for the bits I need. I'll bring my tools with me.
Cheers,
Bob

[Edited on 2/5/15 by splitrivet]

Bluemoon - 2/5/15 at 08:27 AM

Self jigging chassis pack should speed things up

adithorp - 2/5/15 at 08:35 AM

Ambitious but doable. It will take dedication though.

Are you going to Stoneleigh show this weekend. I know you're in a rush to get working but the chance to look at and photo' loads of finished cars could save you lots of head scratching later. The weather is looking best on Monday so I'd expect more cars there than on Sunday.

MatthewHorton - 2/5/15 at 04:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by splitrivet
Matt u2u me when youve got the motor and when youre ready to strip it. I'll gladly give you a hand to strip it it return for the bits I need. I'll bring my tools with me.
Cheers,
Bob

[Edited on 2/5/15 by splitrivet]

thanks Bob, I will definitely take you up on this. The help would be much appreciated!

MatthewHorton - 2/5/15 at 04:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
Ambitious but doable. It will take dedication though.

Are you going to Stoneleigh show this weekend. I know you're in a rush to get working but the chance to look at and photo' loads of finished cars could save you lots of head scratching later. The weather is looking best on Monday so I'd expect more cars there than on Sunday.

i didnt know this was on! thanks! i might go down if i can find the time. good idea.

MatthewHorton - 2/5/15 at 04:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bluemoon
Self jigging chassis pack should speed things up

i feel like there should be a 'like' button....

PorkChop - 2/5/15 at 07:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MatthewHorton

quote:
Originally posted by PorkChop

quote:
Originally posted by jacko
I have been thinking about this all day and realised you are using a sierra back axle but the ron champion book is for a beam axle
jacko

This is what's confusing me slightly. I thought that were plans to fit the Sierra IRS to a Locost, but these weren't official plans.

So are we talking about the book written by Ron Champion or Chris Gibbs?

Im building the haynes roadster! sorry i didn't make that clear! its the Chris Gibbs book! i dont know if that make some previous comments irrelevant?

Some of them, yes. The Roadster uses 1.9" dampers, not 2.25" for example.

Rosco86 - 2/5/15 at 07:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MatthewHorton
I'm going down a rabbit hole now and reading the forum and reading about caster angle being incorrect in the book design??

So how about this then to?

big_wasa - 2/5/15 at 08:04 PM

So yes most of what you have read and comments are for the "Ron" book based on the mk2 escort /cortina.

PorkChop - 2/5/15 at 08:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Rosco86

quote:
Originally posted by MatthewHorton
I'm going down a rabbit hole now and reading the forum and reading about caster angle being incorrect in the book design??

So how about this then to?

I think there are mentions on the Haynes forum that there wasn't a lot of front caster in the design, but I'm definitely not the right person to ask about Sierra based Roadsters! I just know a bit about the MX-5 version.

MatthewHorton - 4/5/15 at 12:42 AM

ok, so i've just been given a welding machine. its a 13amp arc welder. question is, is it up for the job!?

it says 3.2Kw on the front.

as you can see, i've got some rods too but i doubt they're the correct size for anything!

[Edited on 4/5/15 by MatthewHorton]

mark chandler - 4/5/15 at 06:25 AM

It takes a great deal of skill to weld thin steel correctly with an arc welder, you need to say thank you, but no thanks and hand that beast back.

Really you want a 150amp mig welder and decent sized bottle of gas using 0.6mm wire, if you get a second hand machine bank on needing to buy a new liner, not expensive and make sure the wire is not rusty from storage.

Also get a full face mask, ideally an auto one as when welding you need both hands, if right handed support you wrist with your left hand to keep the nozzle evenly spaced from the work, it makes a big difference!

Regards Mark

[Edited on 4/5/15 by mark chandler]

big_wasa - 4/5/15 at 06:46 AM

I would think about buying a chassis if that welder's your only option.

Rosco86 - 4/5/15 at 06:51 AM

Or buy you self a mig and the steel for your chassis, its not that difficult to cut it your self, just cut it as you go, thats what i did, your steel should be less than £100, so with a mig it will still be cheaper than a flat pack kit

mark chandler - 4/5/15 at 07:38 AM

I have a selection of cutting tools, plasma, power hacksaw, selection of angle grinders.... for the chassis the best one is a hand hacksaw with decent blade in a quality vice, set the board out right mark the steel and cut along the jaws.

MatthewHorton - 4/5/15 at 10:13 AM

Thanks everyone for your advice.

quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
It takes a great deal of skill to weld thin steel correctly with an arc welder, you need to say thank you, but no thanks and hand that beast back.

Really you want a 150amp mig welder and decent sized bottle of gas using 0.6mm wire, if you get a second hand machine bank on needing to buy a new liner, not expensive and make sure the wire is not rusty from storage.
[Edited on 4/5/15 by mark chandler]

ok i'll give it back. haha.

the going rate to hire a 150amp mig welder appears to be about £50 a week. this is going to be the cheapest option for me.

thanks again for the tips.

MatthewHorton - 4/5/15 at 10:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
I have a selection of cutting tools, plasma, power hacksaw, selection of angle grinders.... for the chassis the best one is a hand hacksaw with decent blade in a quality vice, set the board out right mark the steel and cut along the jaws.

this sounds like an interesting technique. could you possibly elaborate a bit on how you would position what you're cutting in relation to this vice? i cant quite picture it.

thanks.

Slimy38 - 4/5/15 at 10:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MatthewHorton

ok i'll give it back. haha.

the going rate to hire a 150amp mig welder appears to be about £50 a week. this is going to be the cheapest option for me.

thanks again for the tips.

That's the cheapest option? Unless you intend to complete all the welding the work in less than three weeks (and I would be very impressed if you could), I would suggest buying one will work out cheaper. Especially if you consider that you could sell it at the end for around 70-80% of the price.

The Clarke 150 welder is currently less than £200, it's not the most amazing welder out there but it's a decent set for the money and it's intended use. I've been using one from Aldi for the last few years (cost me £130!) and the only issue is that I can't use anything more than the 0.7kg reels. That's not a big problem, I think I used two for the whole of the chassis!

Slimy38 - 4/5/15 at 10:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MatthewHorton

quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
I have a selection of cutting tools, plasma, power hacksaw, selection of angle grinders.... for the chassis the best one is a hand hacksaw with decent blade in a quality vice, set the board out right mark the steel and cut along the jaws.

this sounds like an interesting technique. could you possibly elaborate a bit on how you would position what you're cutting in relation to this vice? i cant quite picture it.

thanks.

I assume he's just suggesting clamping the steel so that the cutting line is lined up with the edge of the jaws, and the thick iron of the vice ensures the blade stays in line.

To be honest, I didn't even go that far, I marked it up, cut it with a hacksaw about half a mil away from the line and then finished it off with a file as I fitted each piece to the chassis. I actually quite enjoyed it.

I can personally recommend Bahco blades, they're not that much more than standard blades but they chop through hollow section like it was butter. And because they cut well, you don't have to apply as much pressure and therefore it's much more accurate (and easier!)

mark chandler - 4/5/15 at 01:05 PM

Exactly that, you line up the cut with the vice jaws and follow the jaws for a nice straight 'horizontal' cut, the jaws should be hardened the blade just follows these.

No point hiring a welder, buy a second hand one then when finished sell on, plenty on eBay.

Also you will not get it all welded in a week, you should be able to produce the basic frame but it's adding on all the little brackets that swallow the time, for instance allow a day to make the wishbones.... Then spend two days, remember your life and possibly others depends on how well you weld, how accurately you can cut (do not go filling gaps with snots of weld) and also how the car will perform.

MatthewHorton - 4/5/15 at 11:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
remember your life and possibly others depends on how well you weld, how accurately you can cut (do not go filling gaps with snots of weld) and also how the car will perform.

I'm already paranoid enough as it is!! haha

i will take the advice and get a second hand one and then sell it again when I'm done. thanks for the tip about the good hacksaw blades!

I came home today after buying a half done chassis and bits that have been cut to book spec but not welded on yet! Thanks, Neil and Sean!

this should get me off to a very good start!

here are some pictures:

Chassis on its way home:

Description

In the garage:

Description

Cut pieces:

Description

MatthewHorton - 4/5/15 at 11:35 PM

has anyone got any opinions on any of these welders for the chassis. which one should i go for?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191569335746?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161694688661?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.gumtree.com/p/welding-equipment/mig-welder-135-watt-hardly-used.-/1113450560
(i know this one is only 135 amps)

do i definitely need 150 amps?

many thanks!

Slimy38 - 5/5/15 at 07:19 AM

That Powercraft one is exactly the one I got!! It's a bit cheeky for him to ask £130 for it as that was how much they cost new (they were never £190).

This is the same one from Amazon for £155;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Combination-Smooth-Welder-Accessory-Wheels/dp/B00CLPOTV8

Having said that, I suspect most people would put the Powercraft/Wolf one at the bottom of any list.

MatthewHorton - 6/5/15 at 12:39 PM

So here's the update. Money spent so far:

Chassis: £150
Donor: £500
Power craft welder: £90
Angle grinder and disks: £50
Petrol: £40
PPE: £20

Total: £850 :/

I didn't wanna spend more than £1000!

[Edited on 6/5/15 by MatthewHorton]

[Edited on 6/5/15 by MatthewHorton]