With the cost of fuel going up all the time, now might be the time for some enterprising manufacturer (not me) to design a kit specifically to address
the problem of the commute, shopping etc.
Now we all love our LSIS's etc. but they really aren't ideal for everyday use. But if there was a kit which would end up as a four seater,
with a windscreen, roof, doors even, that one could drive all the year round then I think that would be a good thing, especially if said car was
actually interesting, good looking, quick?. Even better if it was cheap and quick to build.
Anyway, the first question would be what the overall form of the car should be, and inevitably, what should be the donor?
More or less got to be front wheel drive, if it's to satisfy all the requirements above (although satisfying the good looking requirement with a
front wheel drive car is a bit tricky)
As inspiration, might I suggest William Town's Mini Hustler? It would need to be updated, but I think he had all the basics right
Anyone want to take this discussion on from here?
John
A commuter car is an appliance which should be built in a factory, to a price and on a scale far beyond any kit manufacturer. I can't see it
being attractive to the self builder in any numbers.
If things go on as they are then properly small, economical vehicles will be viable as long as they start, stop and go as reliably as the appliances
in your kitchen. I know I could use one ~3 days a week if there's room for a few bags of shopping etc.
IF.... i had the space and money i would build an electric car using a Citroen or Pug mini van. Light with room in the back for batteries. You can use
the orig gearbox and axle. Bolt a motor to an adaptor plate which then bolts to the gearbox. Speed coltroler and away you go.
There is an electric Citroen Balingo that does about 55 miles per charge so providing work was say no more than 20 miles away then it's feasable.
They were flogging brand new Ka's for £4995 recently - ok it has a boot you could barely fit a handbag in but still £4995 - I'd like to see
any kit manufacturer match that as an on the road price even if you were building it yourself - you could spend £2k just doing interior trim
properly!!!
MEV now do an electric trike that can be built for a fairly small sum.
Look on Youtube for MEV etrike - they sell the plans for £50 and the plans + grp for £350. I want to buy the plans, mod the chassis, fit 4 wheels and
stick a bike engine in 
MEV etrike: Looks like a sooped up wheel chair!!
Price wise it's not going to be competitive with something like a second hand Ford Ka, therefore you've got to make it considerably better.
Something like a rear wheel drive hatchback would be good.
Junk all the unnecessary stuff fitted to modern cars to save weight. So no power steering, servo or anti-lock brakes etc. etc. etc.
Need a fairly modern and common donor with choice of engines from mild to wild. Rwd gearbox is probably the hardest part. I seriously don't
think many people would bother if it was fwd.
quote:
Originally posted by donut
MEV etrike: Looks like a sooped up wheel chair!!
Here's a pic of the Hustler I mentioned aerlier, one f the early ones with plywood panels on a steel frame. Later ones had glassfibre bodywork,
and quite a few had six wheels (2 rear mini subframes)
I think it looks good, though that isn't surprising as he did design the original Aston Martin DBS (winner of the Henderson best looking car of
all time award)
A later version
[Edited on 3/7/08 by mr henderson]
[Edited on 3/7/08 by mr henderson]
richard from robinhood used to have one i think ?
My opinion....
I could not possibly motivate myself to build a sensible, economical, eco-friendly, commuter car. For me if it was something I could go out and buy
then I'd just do that.
For me a major reason to build a car is to achieve a cost/performance ratio that the big boys just can't do.
I think the kit market suggests that I'm not alone with this opinion.
with a tin top I want mile after mile of trouble free, thought free motoring - you do not either of them in kit car.
"what is that knocking sound?"
do they have a website? I can find the vid on youtube, but no more info...
cheers!
quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
MEV now do an electric trike that can be built for a fairly small sum.
Look on Youtube for MEV etrike - they sell the plans for £50 and the plans + grp for £350. I want to buy the plans, mod the chassis, fit 4 wheels and stick a bike engine in
look here
Or buy "classic and sportscar" August 2008 issue, there's a great article in there.
Something like that with a modern three cylinder engine would be good.
cheers
Chris
A lot depends on what you want to do with it... Monday to Friday, I drive my car 6 miles to the station, and 6 miles home again, with only a small
part of the journey at 60mph - most far less.
Either the electric cars, or the Indian compressed-air car, would probably serve me very well for that. Although I do understand that the energy has
to come from somewhere - before anyone says it!
William Towns also did a Hustler using Jag V12 engine and running gear and 6 wheels!
It would be interesting to do a more up-to-date version as the concept is great if a little too angular! You could use something like a pug 106 diesel
as a base.
I always liked the Alto Duo which could out smart a certain trendy commuter car. Or how about the ACV30 mini concept - mid engined !!!!
Can't get photos to display! HELP!
They're in my archive!
[Edited on 3/7/08 by JC]
[Edited on 3/7/08 by JC]
[Edited on 3/7/08 by JC]
quote:
Originally posted by jimmyjoebob
William Towns also did a Hustler using Jag V12 engine and running gear and 6 wheels!
This may have been on here before, but one person's interpretation of a modern day mini moke looked quite interesting
moke 1
moke 4
Many of the people here seem to think that the reason forbuilding a kit car is to own the result, I can well understand that, but there are a lot of
people out there who enjoy the building part the most, I know I certainly do.
There are lots a people who built all kinds of kit cars that many of the people here would laugh at, eg Rangers, Ginetta saloons, mini scamps. But, if
you've only got one garage and a couple of kids that don't want to be left out of the driving fun, why not?
I like the idea of a super cheap to run practical everyday kit-car..........but it would have to be cheap to build as well - my current tin-top is the
most expensive car I have ever bough (the Fury dont count since that is my hobby...) at........£600 two years ago .
How about Corsa running gear ? Loads of them about , cheap widely available spares , and a good range of engines . Then I would allready have a doner
car
I personally think, like others have said, that their wouldn't be much demand in building something that at the end of the day is the
'work' car, not the 'fun' car.
And something with a full body, interior etc etc will always be more expensive than a mass produced car, and less reliable.
I note that this has become a discussion about the marketability of such a vehicle, rather than what form such a vehicle would take.
I guess that means the committee is not in favour of looking at the project in more detail.
Never mind, it was only an idea.
John
I think the pictures on this thread demostrate why the ideas always a bit of a non starter 
tbh the other problem the idea has is that in order to be easy and cheapish to build it would have to be front wheel drive and based on a small
hatchback. It would also have to have a roof and hatchback type bodywork. To carry on for a bit I can't see such a vehicle being able to be built
for less than about £5K and it would probably take an average of about a year to build. At the end of all that I'm not sure it would be much
better to drive or more economical than the donor and as you could probably buy a donor vehicle with a years MOT every year (then scrap it before the
MOT is due up again) for about 6 years for the same price as the commuter kit car.......... you do wonder if it would be worth the effort......
quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
I think the pictures on this thread demostrate why the ideas always a bit of a non starter
quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
tbh the other problem the idea has is that in order to be easy and cheapish to build it would have to be front wheel drive and based on a small hatchback. It would also have to have a roof and hatchback type bodywork. To carry on for a bit I can't see such a vehicle being able to be built for less than about £5K and it would probably take an average of about a year to build. At the end of all that I'm not sure it would be much better to drive or more economical than the donor and as you could probably buy a donor vehicle with a years MOT every year (then scrap it before the MOT is due up again) for about 6 years for the same price as the commuter kit car.......... you do wonder if it would be worth the effort......
Think you'll find my figures aren't that far out....if you add up absolutely everything that it has cost to build a 7 for example (and yes I
take your point that if it's a complete donor swap and you don't have to modify too much on it will be a bit cheaper BUT the bodywork will
probably be more expensive to offset that) very few are actually completed for much under £5k - I know a lot of people say they have done it for
significantly less but a good deal of figure massaging and 'forgetting' what they happened to have hidden in the garage already goes on
Rough 'commuter kit' estimates.....
Decent donor (bearing in mind you don't want to spend money refurbing everything - £500
Chassis - £500
Bodywork - £1000
IVA and registration - £500 (ish)
so that's £2500 straight off and unless you can use every last part from the donor (in which case it will almost certainly be almost exactly like
the donor to drive 
) it would be extremely easy to spend another £1500 to £2000 building it.
TBH if you redesigned the body on one of those Jester things to have a roof and doors the jobs pretty much done already
quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
unless you can use every last part from the donor (in which case it will almost certainly be almost exactly like the donor to drive
For a relatively simple commuter car you could really simplify the chassis - the welding that goes into a standard locost chassis always seems way
over the top compared to that of a fisher fury.
I was looking last week at a moke replica that uses a form of spaceframe below a one piece glassfibre floor pan and it was very well triangulated
whilst relatively simple. It may not be quiet but it is fun to drive and surprisingly quick as it weighs far less than a mini!
quote:
Oh I don't think so! At least 30% lighter and if you choose a quick donor to start with (re my example above) then that could be quite a fun car. Plus if a Cat C or D donor was used then the economic benefits would be more obvious
I understand where you're coming from BUT I want different things from the car I drive to work
in from the car I have fun in or drive at the weekend - the work car needs to be comfortable in all weathers, relaxing to drive at 90ish on the
motorway, capable of sitting in a traffic jam for 30 minutes at least, capable of starting every time you turn the key no matter what the temperature
and not looking like a clown car when you turn up to a meeting and the car park is full of BMWs, Audis etc...... tbh that's a hard criteria for
any sub £5K kit car to meet! quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
I still think that making a comparable car to the donor that is lighter isn't going to be any cheaper than running several 'donors' and scrapping them after a year.....
quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
yes it will be more fun because it's lighter BUT that means you'll have to spend money on the suspension because it's not suspending the car it was designed for....
Just a thought - but if the doner was was a modern , low emission (low or non-tax) car , what would be the tax on it as a kit ?
I can see a big bonus in a light weight (composite monocoque shell ?) car - no rust to fail future MOT's , tyres and brakes would not be stressed
so should last for ever - so super cheap to run long-term .
All we need is some one to style it - maybe Jester-ish with a full roof and doors , it has be have total weather protection since as a commuter car it
will be used year round in all weather's ?
Any ambitious stylists on here ?