but can it be done on carbed cars? i'm was considering doing it to the pickup, but being as
its on bike carbs, i wasn't sure it could be done.
As above. Does anyone have a tintop on lpg? Im contemplating getting a vag 1.8t and converting it. Just wondered how cheap to run lpg is compared
to straight petrol? Any loss of power etc.
Anyone diy fitted a kit?
Yes, I've done it.
Power on LPG, now same as petrol now I have it mapped properly.
Car does 40mpg on Petrol and 30mpg on gas. Does about 110 miles for a tenner of LPG.
And yes, I diy fitted it.
System is Aldesa RSI+
my mum bought a peugeot with lpg already fitted. it seems alright. no noticeable power loss on gas (peugeots are a bit low on power for my liking
anyway. don't know why she insisted on getting another one...), though the idle's a bit rough on gas.
i think mpg is a bit down on gas vs petrol, but bearing in mind the price of gas it still works out cheaper.
mmm, still undecided whether i'd bother running lpg myself. its quite good, but i'm not completely sold on it myself i think
I looked in to getting my carby cars done, but got no where in the end. All the systems I looked at were over 1k even for DIY which I think is utter cr4p for something so simple plus the seemed to suffer from backfiring a lot with tails of manifolds exploding (no I didn't believe that either) but they seemed to leave a lot to be desired.
whippy, you don't instill me with confidence but can it be done on carbed cars? i'm was considering doing it to the pickup, but being as
its on bike carbs, i wasn't sure it could be done.
I think it can be done on carbed cars. Years ago a company I worked for used an ouside transport company. They had Transit vans with big gas bottles in the back instead of a tank. Probably not leagal but it kept their fuel costs down even then back in the early eighties.
i can see in injected cars how the fuel could be stopped by just switching off the injectors, but can't see how it would work with a carb
To be honest I think there have been a lot of deliberate lies put out by companies who fit kits to try to dissuade people from doing a DIY LPG
conversion. Things like needing a Corgi certification (bo!!ocks), needing a thin walled cylinder which happens to cost several hundred pound instead
of a standard industrial gas cylinder (which must be at least ten times stronger and the crappy car type). The rubbish about manifolds exploding,
Jesus I’ve poured cupfuls of petrol down manifolds with 2ft flames and huge bangs and never seen even a bent butterfly valve! I don’t think for a
minute a 5mm thick aluminium manifold is going to explode!! At worst it might blow the vacuum hose off and I ain’t seen that happen either…
I looked over a works LPG forklift that I used to use and it was nothing more than a utterly standard Toyota car engine with a half baked gas mixer
thing consisting of a small pipe into the middle of the inlet, a rotary valve to control the amount of gas released linked to the throttle by a rod
and a solenoid valve to shut the gas on and off with the ignition, that was it nothing more and it ran great with bags of power! Oh yes and it also
had an aluminium manifold…that never blow up.
One other thing to bare in mind is that if you are using a car type tank with only a filling station pump filler you are then stuck with what ever the
gas costs at a filling station, which I have noticed is going up quite a bit. Fit a standard gas bottle and you can just buy the gas at ordinary rates
without the tax hikes.
I have been running my explorer on LPG for a couple of years know,well pleased with it.I can not tell the difference when it changes over.Paying 43p a
litre
Carbd cars can be done. Iv found kits for 500 quid for carbs. The only way i can see that it stops the fuel is it shuts the fuel to the carb and
lets the bowl run dry. How else could you do it?
Im trying to compare an lpg'd car running cost compared to a TDi as veg oil has gone through the roof. Plus i quite fancy doing a conversion
just to have a go.
I have been thinking about LPG but the problem i see is that, give it a few years and LPG will be the same price as petrol. I would consider Mr Whippys idea but whats to stop them hiking the price up on that too just as they have done with veggie oil?
I'm looking to buy my own 2500l tank ( Wefco, Gainsborough,£950 ) and buying from whoever is cheapest, currently 28p/l. Will then run workshop heating and two vehicles on it.
I've got a juicy Voyager - its got a 3.3V6 and returns 20 - 24 mpg 
I had intended to go the LPG route, but they don't sell it around here
(Denmark). Maybe there is a way of getting a supply via one of my farmer mates or a trucking company. Mr. Whippy what other purposes is LPG sold for?
What is not used for? I have 3 cylinders in the garage alone and 2 in the caravan.
My last house had a huge one outside for the heating. These cylinders are drop tested, set on fire and have heavy gauge steel construction making the
so called car tanks look like drinks cans in comparison.
quote:
Carbd cars can be done. Iv found kits for 500 quid for carbsquote:
Got a link to that kit?
[Edited on 17/4/08 by Mr Whippy]
Puk - 17/4/08 at 08:01 AMIs LPG propane / butane? Is that what the Toyota motor in the forklift that you mentioned?
Are wikipedia has the answer, its a mix of the two plus a little ethanethiol, so that you can smell any leaks: linky.
Thanks for the steer
[Edited on 17/4/08 by Puk]
Puk - 17/4/08 at 08:04 AMquote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Got a link to that kit?
[Edited on 17/4/08 by Mr Whippy]
Looks promising
Mr Whippy - 17/4/08 at 08:38 AMquote:
Originally posted by Puk
Is LPG propane / butane? Is that what the Toyota motor in the forklift that you mentioned?
all the industrial machinery I've seen running on gas has been using these gas cylinders which are just clamped on. That site looks good, I'll ask them for a price breakdown and see if they can supply components rather than whole kits.
cheers.
------
ok I have e-mail the company this...
Hello,
I am wondering if you could give me details for a large car builders forum, as many are interested in converting their cars to LPG but do not know enough about the system in terms of cost and problems.
I personally am interested in converting 3 of my cars – a Nissan Bluebird 1800 petrol automatic, JBA Falcon kit car using a 2000 Ford pinto carburettor engine & VW beetle based dune buggy with a 1600 air-cooled flat four.
I live in Scotland and the LPG is quite available here but most kits are sold only for injection cars plus kits are very expensive. Do you sell individual components or just complete kits? I would be quite happy to use industrial cylinders rather than dedicated car tanks but wonder if you have heard of people having had problems using such cylinders in cars. I would like to completely remove the petrol tank and carburettor, is the realistic or will I initially have to run on petrol till the engine heats up, also how would the petrol be shut off? (a question asked this morning).
Any information and guides to prices would be very helpful to myself and other member of the forum who live in many different countries. The engines used by other members range from motorbike engined cars to 4ltr v12 engines so I can not be too specific with those.
Thanks,
[Edited on 17/4/08 by Mr Whippy]
Puk - 17/4/08 at 09:13 AMI'll be interested to see what they come back with. Actually I had also emailed them, though with a more specific question about my Chrysler and the possibility of using butane or propane instead of LPG. I'll post whatever comes back.
Cheers,
James
graememk - 17/4/08 at 09:16 AMmake sure you put a sign on the car as i feel for the firefighters that come to put burning cars out then get blown up as the bottle goes.
Peteff - 17/4/08 at 09:51 AMYou can't fit a removable fuel tank to a road going vehicle and still pass an MOT. The LPG tanks on fork trucks use different connectors to camping and heating gas bottles.
Mr Whippy - 17/4/08 at 10:12 AMwell the calor gas tanks are fire tested, and can be fitted with the same pressure relief valves used on the car tanks so they vent gas in a fire rather than explode. If you bolt in the tank it's about as removable as a petrol tank. All the fuel filler connections are fitted to the car shell and not the tank it's self so there is no difference in connecting them to either tank. The forklift I used had exactly the same connector and tank to the ones I have in the caravan and garage.
[Edited on 17/4/08 by Mr Whippy]
britishtrident - 17/4/08 at 11:30 AMPay back time for a modern four cylinder doing 30 mpg on petrol is a about 12 to 18 months depending mileage.
britishtrident - 17/4/08 at 11:32 AMquote:
Originally posted by triumphdave
I have been running my explorer on LPG for a couple of years know,well pleased with it.I can not tell the difference when it changes over.Paying 43p a litre
43p a litre is pretty good prices I have seen quoted are about 55p.
blakep82 - 17/4/08 at 11:33 AM49-59p round here
Peteff - 17/4/08 at 12:15 PMquote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
The forklift I used had exactly the same connector and tank to the ones I have in the caravan and garage.
The ones we used have larger unions with a hand tightened nut and a much coarser thread than our camping bottles which have a thread for the standard regulator and a hexagonal nut.
Mr Whippy - 17/4/08 at 12:43 PMquote:
Originally posted by Peteff
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
The forklift I used had exactly the same connector and tank to the ones I have in the caravan and garage.
The ones we used have larger unions with a hand tightened nut and a much coarser thread than our camping bottles which have a thread for the standard regulator and a hexagonal nut.
Perhaps there are variations, maybe different suppliers use different connections, I certainly remember pinching one of the welders propane burner cylinders when the forklift ran out. Regardless they all go to a pipe anyway so it makes no difference in the end. Point is I think there are no reasons that you can't bolt a calor gas type tank into a car (so long as it's not somewhere stupid like on the bumper)
It is worth noting that like in a caravan a vent/grill is fitted to the floor of the boot or compartment that the cylinder is fitted so that any gas leaking will flow outside (being heaver than air) to prevent gas building up inside the car. I'm sure have seen converted cars showing a pressurised inflammable gas sticker on the back. I think I'd have the over pressurising vent pipe (the one that vents the gas in the event of a fire) pointing straight up out the back of the body, like through an old aerial hole for example as I'd consider that to be the safest place for a flame to be pointing.
[Edited on 17/4/08 by Mr Whippy]
paulf - 17/4/08 at 04:05 PMI was looking on Ebay recently and there are refillable gas bottles for sale that have a standard car type filler and a cut off valve to prevent over filling, these are designed for barbecues and patio heaters etc .For a car you require one with a dip tube to dispense liquid rather than gas.
Also on Ebay are quite a lot of bottles and complete kits removed from vechiles for not much money.
My diesel tin top is on its last legs and im trying to decide between another diesel or an lpg conversion.
Paul.
Puk - 17/4/08 at 05:37 PMHave you got engaged Mr. Whippy?
zilspeed - 17/4/08 at 05:58 PMWhippy
My Toroidal tank cost 100 quid.
Why on earth would you bugger about with propane bottles.
My Sequential kit cost 400 quid.
My installation cost nada becuase I did it myself.
Corgi has nothing to do with LPG conversions - at all - ever.
I had broke even within 6 months because of the above costs.
triumphdave - 17/4/08 at 07:08 PMquote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by triumphdave
I have been running my explorer on LPG for a couple of years know,well pleased with it.I can not tell the difference when it changes over.Paying 43p a litre
43p a litre is pretty good prices I have seen quoted are about 55p.
Yes I get a loyalty card from my local garage which knocks off 10p a litre
Puk - 18/4/08 at 11:42 AMI heard back from the company in my previous mail. I had asked if I could run a car on propane and/or butane in the absence of LPG. They said:
"you can't run a car on LPG if you can't buy it"
fair enough! With a bit more prompting they stated that you could not run an engine on bottled propane or butane because the the bottles produce vapor rather than liquid. there was an exception - engines under 15bhp. Perhaps that explains the fork lift trucks that I've seen running on bottled gas, but either:
Foklift trucks have small engines than I'd imagined
That 15bhp limit is a bit low
The gas canister contained lpg
It was propane/butane but it issued a liquid
Pah - think another expert is called for...
zilspeed - 18/4/08 at 04:05 PMTurn the gas bottle upside down.
Guess what comes out ?
Yep, liquid.
The bottles for forklifts have a liquid takeoff inside them so the can be laid flat.
There have been one, maybe two occasions with poorly maintained nozzles at filling stations when a very small amount of liquid has actually leaked out on me.
It really is peculiar seeing a clear liquid boiling at ambient temperature, maybe 8 degrees C.
Actual boiling point is -42 degrees C.
paulf - 18/4/08 at 04:09 PMLPG is propane , sometimes it may have a small amount of butane added but the bottle coulor is red if propane and blue if butane.Fork lift trucks use a bottle with a dip tube to dispense liquid, this is the reason that the bottles have an arrow to show which way up to fit the bottle.
I suppose you could use a propane bottle if you mounted it inverted though.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Puk
I heard back from the company in my previous mail. I had asked if I could run a car on propane and/or butane in the absence of LPG. They said:
"you can't run a car on LPG if you can't buy it"
fair enough! With a bit more prompting they stated that you could not run an engine on bottled propane or butane because the the bottles produce vapor rather than liquid. there was an exception - engines under 15bhp. Perhaps that explains the fork lift trucks that I've seen running on bottled gas, but either:
Foklift trucks have small engines than I'd imagined
That 15bhp limit is a bit low
The gas canister contained lpg
It was propane/butane but it issued a liquid
Pah - think another expert is called for...
britishtrident - 18/4/08 at 07:52 PMquote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Whippy
My Toroidal tank cost 100 quid.
Why on earth would you bugger about with propane bottles.
My Sequential kit cost 400 quid.
My installation cost nada becuase I did it myself.
Corgi has nothing to do with LPG conversions - at all - ever.
I had broke even within 6 months because of the above costs.
Thats a good price for a sequential kit -- begs the question where from ?
zilspeed - 18/4/08 at 08:12 PMquote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Whippy
My Toroidal tank cost 100 quid.
Why on earth would you bugger about with propane bottles.
My Sequential kit cost 400 quid.
My installation cost nada becuase I did it myself.
Corgi has nothing to do with LPG conversions - at all - ever.
I had broke even within 6 months because of the above costs.
Thats a good price for a sequential kit -- begs the question where from ?
Why, ebay of course
Aldesa kit on ebay
This very kit.
paulf - 18/4/08 at 08:31 PMIt says on that advert that it is fully self mapping , is this correct?
Paul
zilspeed - 18/4/08 at 10:22 PMPretty much.
Drive it and it records the petrol injection settings and uses them as a starting point for gas. It then uses the readings from the O2 sensor to continually check whether these are actually the right ones on gas. It then adjusts continually to enhance the map. I'm as cynical as the next man, but yes it does work.
In addition, I can plug my laptop in and do it manually - again with the standard O2 sensor.
As you may have gathered, I'm a fan.
britishtrident - 19/4/08 at 01:03 PMquote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Pretty much.
Drive it and it records the petrol injection settings and uses them as a starting point for gas. It then uses the readings from the O2 sensor to continually check whether these are actually the right ones on gas. It then adjusts continually to enhance the map. I'm as cynical as the next man, but yes it does work.
In addition, I can plug my laptop in and do it manually - again with the standard O2 sensor.
As you may have gathered, I'm a fan.
It sounds like a good bit of kit some of the other kits on Ebay look a bit ropey.
The best looking quality wise UK kits I have are here http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/ about £200 dearer.
[Edited on 19/4/08 by britishtrident]
paulf - 19/4/08 at 06:48 PMWould it work on a turbo car? I have achance of a Rover 800 vitesse turbo with 77000 miles on it but wouldnt consider running it on petrol although my 600 diesel needs repalcing soon and this may do the job.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Pretty much.
Drive it and it records the petrol injection settings and uses them as a starting point for gas. It then uses the readings from the O2 sensor to continually check whether these are actually the right ones on gas. It then adjusts continually to enhance the map. I'm as cynical as the next man, but yes it does work.
In addition, I can plug my laptop in and do it manually - again with the standard O2 sensor.
As you may have gathered, I'm a fan.
zilspeed - 19/4/08 at 10:33 PMquote:
Originally posted by paulf
Would it work on a turbo car? I have achance of a Rover 800 vitesse turbo with 77000 miles on it but wouldnt consider running it on petrol although my 600 diesel needs repalcing soon and this may do the job.
Paul
Yes indeed it would.
On the turbo car, as boost comes in, injector times rise accordingly.
On LPG injection they do exactly the same. It's also 110 octane, so maybe ideal for a turbocharged engine.
Previously, LPG was reckoned not to work on forced induction engines due to them essentially running what amounted to a simple carb on the inlet manifold.
Sequential injection has changed all of that.
britishtrident - 20/4/08 at 05:56 PMThere is a fairly active lp-gas forum in Yahoo groups I joined recently to start to gather info.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lp-gas/
Some of the threads have info on converting the Rover 2 litre Turbo in the 620Ti and 820 Vitesse.
For what I gather this engine in 197 bhp form pushes the flow rate of the systems used to the limit.
ISTR the 820 only the Vitesse Turbo Sport had this engine the more common Vitesse Turbo had a bit less power (istr 174 bhp but In might be wrong).
I think the way to tell a Vitesse Turbo Sport from the normal Turbo is the diameter of the front brake discs.
[Edited on 20/4/08 by britishtrident]
