Mark G
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 08:23 PM |
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Fireblade only runs on 3 cyl's
I was gutted to find today that with my sva in less than 1 month and already having my work cut out to get finished in time that my engine (893cc
blade) is only sparking on 2,3+4.
I'm hoping that its the plug at fault which I'll whip out tomorrow to have a look at. If it is the plug then shall I...
A, Get standard plugs to replace what I have at a cost of £27.50
(HERE)
B, Push the boat out and spend an extra tenner and get NGK Iridium plugs
(HERE)
Or
C, Your suggestion which hopefully will be better and cheaper than my ideas above??
Thanks in advance,
Mark.
[Edited on 8/3/09 by Mark G]
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RichardK
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 08:29 PM |
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couldn't you just swap the plug and see if the fault moves? Ruling out plug / ht lead?
Cheers
Rich
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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Mark G
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 08:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RichardK
couldn't you just swap the plug and see if the fault moves? Ruling out plug / ht lead?
Cheers
Rich
Thats tomorrow night's job as my plug socket is in my toolbox at work. I'm thinking it will be the plug so I'm doing some homework
early so when I get in late tomorrow evening I can just order what I need.
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 08:38 PM |
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You "could" try the old trick of giving the plug a quick blast with a blow torch.
Blade plugs are more than a bit picky, so you might have to bin them off and start again. Still - best to try a freebie first.
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ReMan
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 08:42 PM |
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If you cant get the plug out how do you know it's not sparking on number 1?
If you've tried with a spare plug an that's not workig, then it's the coil/lead.
If you're sure it's the plug, get it out and give it a good clean.
I can't believe the number of peeps throwing good (but dirty or wetted) plugs away.
It's not that the plugs arre faulty, it's that the engine is very easy to flood
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Mark G
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 08:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
If you cant get the plug out how do you know it's not sparking on number 1?
Tried to read the revs using an inductive pickup, didn't read anything on no 1 plug lead. Also, it runs the same when the plug isn't
connected, and using an infra red thermometer on the manifold 2,3+4 all were at around 70'c and 1 was at 30'c.
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
If you've tried with a spare plug an that's not working, then it's the coil/lead.
I haven't actually swapped the plug over yet as my plug socket is at work. The blade engine uses wasted spark ignition so I plugged the no.1
plug lead onto no.4 and the engine ran the same as before so this eliminates coil/lead.
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
If you're sure it's the plug, get it out and give it a good clean.
I can't believe the number of peeps throwing good (but dirty or wetted) plugs away.
It's not that the plugs arre faulty, it's that the engine is very easy to flood.
This is a job for tomorrow night. although I don't think its flooded as the engine sounds the same as it ever has since I've had it
running.
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ReMan
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 09:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark G
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
If you cant get the plug out how do you know it's not sparking on number 1?
Tried to read the revs using an inductive pickup, didn't read anything on no 1 plug lead. Also, it runs the same when the plug isn't
connected, and using an infra red thermometer on the manifold 2,3+4 all were at around 70'c and 1 was at 30'c.
You didn't mention that before 
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
If you've tried with a spare plug an that's not working, then it's the coil/lead.
I haven't actually swapped the plug over yet as my plug socket is at work. The blade engine uses wasted spark ignition so I plugged the no.1
plug lead onto no.4 and the engine ran the same as before so this eliminates coil/lead.
Nor that
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
If you're sure it's the plug, get it out and give it a good clean.
I can't believe the number of peeps throwing good (but dirty or wetted) plugs away.
It's not that the plugs arre faulty, it's that the engine is very easy to flood.
This is a job for tomorrow night. although I don't think its flooded as the engine sounds the same as it ever has since I've had it
running.
So if you're lucky a Dirty/wet/shorted plug then, hence no pick up from your inductive thing
If you're unlucky, a holed piston with bits of it welded to the plug
Good luck, sure it will be fine
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Mark G
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 09:23 PM |
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Sorry, I started to write a little rant about why it wasn't sparking including all of the details, then somehow managed to delete it all and
couldn't be arsed to do it again so left out the boring bits.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a stinking dirty plug, I'd even settle for a broken one as long as the engine is ok...
Will find out tomorrow I guess.
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sonic
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 09:48 PM |
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I had this problem with my R1 engine when it wasnt ran for a while.
It was only running on 3 cylinders,wasnt the plugs it was muck in the carbs not fueling no 1 cylinder
You could bare your hand on the manifold on that cylinder and the others were hot.
Cleaned the carbs out and ran like a good un!
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Mark G
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 10:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sonic
I had this problem with my R1 engine when it wasnt ran for a while.
It was only running on 3 cylinders,wasnt the plugs it was muck in the carbs not fueling no 1 cylinder
You could bare your hand on the manifold on that cylinder and the others were hot.
Cleaned the carbs out and ran like a good un!
I'll bear this in mind, thanks
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Andy B
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 10:08 PM |
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We use the iridiums in the race engines but in my experience the bog standard NGK,s are very good, if you do decide to fit the more expensive iridium
plugs in the future, never clean them with a wire brush as it damages the plating and will almost guarantee a misfire.
I agree that you could be looking at a carb issue if the plug checks out ok. Also check that the little balance port plug under the casting where the
rubbers push on the head is in place. I have known these fall out or get left open causing a major air leak into the affected cylinderand misfire
regards
Andy
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Mark G
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 10:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
We use the iridiums in the race engines but in my experience the bog standard NGK,s are very good, if you do decide to fit the more expensive iridium
plugs in the future, never clean them with a wire brush as it damages the plating and will almost guarantee a misfire.
I agree that you could be looking at a carb issue if the plug checks out ok. Also check that the little balance port plug under the casting where the
rubbers push on the head is in place. I have known these fall out or get left open causing a major air leak into the affected cylinderand misfire
regards
Andy
Andy do you mean the screw's which I've pointed to below? Are they meant to be screwed all the way in? I didn't know what they do
so I've left them alone but I know the one I checked isn't done up...
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mark chandler
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 10:47 PM |
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Those are the idle screws !!! do not touch at this stage of proceedings.
On the head casting where the carb rubbers push on there are take off points for carb balancing, these have the little rubbers Andy is refering to.
Regards Mark
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Mark G
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 10:48 PM |
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I'm with ya, I think one may be missing! 
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OX
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 10:49 PM |
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hi,those screws are your mixture screws. i think the factory setting is around 2 and a half turns out ,but that will be a little week, after a service
you'll probably find them at least 3-4 turns out but theres no set rule,,every one will be different ..
edited as i didnt read the other replies properly
[Edited on 8/3/09 by OX]
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Mark G
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 10:56 PM |
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Just looked back at an old photo of the engine, turns out that the screw is missing so it'll be drawing in loads of extra air then...
Can't really see when the photo has been uploaded but the screw is definately not there and I haven't put one in it.
Top marks class, you passed with flying colours! This was of course a test, I'm not that stupid!
How do you setup the mixture on the carbs? I have a flow meter to setup the flow rates but don't know how to do the mixture. I guess
I'll have to do this before the sva???
[Edited on 8/3/09 by Mark G]
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 8/3/09 at 11:48 PM |
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If you are missing that screw and can't find one then you can get a set of four stainless turned spigots from ABPerformance That you can use to
tune the carbs.
With regard to setting up the mixture screws - Do you have a dynojet kit fitted and what airfilter do you have?
From Base settings I would suggest starting all four screws a smidge over 2 and 3/4 turns out from screwed in.
You need a grub/thumb screwdriver to adjust them.
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Mark G
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 06:12 PM |
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What advantage to I get from using the things from AB Performance? I only ask as I don't really know what they do apart from not letting air
in.
I don't know the history of the carbs, All I've done is seperate them and fit new rubber 'o' rings to fix a fuel leak.
Is there an easy way to see if they've been dynojetted?
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 07:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark G
What advantage to I get from using the things from AB Performance? I only ask as I don't really know what they do apart from not letting air
in.
I don't know the history of the carbs, All I've done is seperate them and fit new rubber 'o' rings to fix a fuel leak.
Is there an easy way to see if they've been dynojetted?
Remove one of the float bowls and look closely at the main jet and see what number is stamped in it.
IIRC, standard size is 115.
Depending on what type air filter you're using, if its been dynojetted correctly then you need 128 - 132 main jets (There are other parts to
the dynojet kit such as different taper needles and blocking of air jets.)
The following should help (blackbird carbs are essentially the same as 'blade.)
http://www.zen69595.zen.co.uk/carb.htm
NOTE: I didn't drill out the air jets as shown in link above, I just used the taper section of the standard needles to block the air jet.
Also DON'T enlarge the hole in the throttle slides as instructed in dynojet instructions!
If you do need to dynojet, ring Andy Bates at AB Performance with info of what air filter/'zorst you're using etc. and he'll supply
the correct dynojet kit with the appropriate jets/needle settings etc. for your application.
Believe me, he'll be spot on and it'll run like a dream. (With standard jets/settings and you drive it for the first time, you'll
hit a 'wall' at about 5000rpm and the engine just won't pull through it!)
[Edited on 9/3/09 by andrew.carwithen]
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Mark G
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 11:24 PM |
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I took the plugs out tonight after fitting a ne bolt in the balance hole and all seem ok. cleaned the plugs up and refitted with no.1 in a different
hole and still ran the same. no spark on 1.
checked the mixture screws and they're all over the place. screwed them all in and then out by 2 3/4 turns as suggested and still the same. I
think the carb on 1 must be blocked or something. I'm going to have to strip it and check.
The carbs have definately been apart before as all of the screws look knackered and of the mixture screws only 1 has its original head.
I hope this doens't take much longer to sort as I just don't have the time. Sva in 4 weeks today and none of the panels are even fitted
yet...
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Andy B
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| posted on 9/3/09 at 11:38 PM |
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Mark
give me a bell on 01449 736633 _ I will talk you through the settings and worse case scenario get you a set of carbs out on loan for sva
regards
Andy
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Mark G
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| posted on 10/3/09 at 07:08 AM |
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Thats very generous of you andy, I may call you tonight before I strip the carbs apart if thats ok. What time are you available on that number?
Cheers
Mark.
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ReMan
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| posted on 10/3/09 at 07:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark G
I took the plugs out tonight after fitting a ne bolt in the balance hole and all seem ok. cleaned the plugs up and refitted with no.1 in a different
hole and still ran the same. no spark on 1.
checked the mixture screws and they're all over the place. screwed them all in and then out by 2 3/4 turns as suggested and still the same. I
think the carb on 1 must be blocked or something. I'm going to have to strip it and check.
The carbs have definately been apart before as all of the screws look knackered and of the mixture screws only 1 has its original head.
I hope this doens't take much longer to sort as I just don't have the time. Sva in 4 weeks today and none of the panels are even fitted
yet...
Mate, Dont think i'm being funny, I'm trying to help.
But I don't get why it's the carbs now as you are sill saying no SPARK on No1?
Have you spun the engine over with No1 plug out on the head and seen it spark or not?
Kind regards
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Andy B
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| posted on 10/3/09 at 07:38 PM |
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Completely off topic for a minute - like the finished car Andrew - that livery looks cracking - seems an eternity ago I was chatting to you about
sourcing a motor.
Nice job mate
Andy
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Mark G
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| posted on 10/3/09 at 10:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
Mate, Dont think i'm being funny, I'm trying to help.
But I don't get why it's the carbs now as you are sill saying no SPARK on No1?
Have you spun the engine over with No1 plug out on the head and seen it spark or not?
Kind regards
Sorry, should have mentioned that the plug was dripping in fuel when I took it out which is why it wasn't sparking.
Or so I thought!!...
[Edited on 10/3/09 by Mark G]
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