flak monkey
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 06:06 PM |
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Duratec install progress - sump construction underway
Plodding on with the prep for installing the duratec. Still working on the engine at the moment, but there isnt an awful lot to do now, mainly
assembly. Managed to get it up on the engine stand yesterday which makes working on it much easier!
 
Engine front
 
Engine exhuast side
Rather than start loads of new threads with progress I will update this one. As I am trying to do it well, but on a budget I will also keep a running
total up to date with how much its costing. Some may be suprised.....
Anyway. Made and fitted the EGR blanking plate in place of the electronic valve. They are available from Ford and Raceline/SB Dev, but I baulked at
paying nearly £40! This one cost me nothing, and 20 mins sweat with a hacksaw and file.
 
EGR blanking plate
Had an argument with someone on the duratec forum over the merits of lightweight flywheels for road use. IMO a superlight flywheel is overkill and not
needed. Especially as they are £200 plus another £200 for a clutch to suit! They are marketed as essential, but seeing as the std 1.8 flywheel only
weighs about 6kg is it worth it? What is as yet unproven is that the clutch will stand up to the power, I think it probably will but may not last as
long as a HD one.... If not, an uprated cover should do the trick. I will be using the std clutch with a 220mm plate fitted from an early mondeo (same
as zetec). If this slips I will re-drill the flywheel to take a HD pinto clutch cover.
Sump - going to use the one which was fitted to my engine, which seems to be a Transit sump and not a mondeo one. The beauty of this is that its level
with the bottom of the bellhousing within 2 or 3 mm so doesnt need any external mods. Inside its fitted with a windage tray and forward baffle. Just
needs a rear baffle fitting (welding to the windage tray) and it will be just as baffled as the Raceline sump and hold the same amount of oil. I may
add some lateral baffles as well for good measure.
 
Sump inside before mods
 
Sump inside before mods
Throttle bodies and injectors. Using GSXR 750 (42mm) throttle bodies which I am going to re-space the suit the inlet port spacing on the engine. Hope
to get my inlet manifold made in the next couple of weeks, which will essentially be a 5mm steel plate with 4 stubby tubes on for attaching the
throttle bodies too. I'll post piccies once I get it done. Again cost is low compared to buying a set of throtle bodies from Webcon or Raceline.
Injectors are mounted direct into the head on the duratec, and as they are bosch ones are an easy upgrade. I have a set of 440cc/min ones on their way
over from the states (less than half the price of over here!) . I will then make a new fuel rail (same as I did on the pinto) to suit them and block
off the injector ports in the throttle bodies.
Again this was a relativley cheap way of sorting induction and fuel and neat too. More piccies to follow as I get it fitted up.
 
GSXR 750 throttle bodies
Lots of other stuff on the list:
Shortened prop to move the engine right back in the chassis. Needs to be about 3" shorted.
Water pipe to move the inlet on the back of the head to the front to connect to rad.
Hydraulic release cylinder spacer for bellhouing.
Mod exhuast manifold to keep same bodywork exit point, but suit new por spacing of duratec.
Make alternator bracket, also need to get hold of a small denso type alternator to fit on passenger side of engine with a 6 groove pulley on.
Running total currently about £500
[Edited on 21/6/09 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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dave1888
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 06:09 PM |
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Looks very sexy and the engines nice and clean.
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 06:11 PM |
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This is very interesting, please keep posting details as I am going to be doing this in the future.
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RichardK
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 06:18 PM |
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Me too, cheers David
Regards
Rich
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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James
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 07:15 PM |
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Flak,
With my current lack of cash situation I'm living my upgrade life through you! 
Keep up the good work. Loving the cash saving but high quality philosophy- just how I want to do mine.
Cheers,
James
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"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses, behind the lines, in the gym and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
- Muhammad Ali
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flak monkey
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 07:15 PM |
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Thanks chaps. Will keep this thread up to date with the progress.
Thanks to Fozzie for the sticky 
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Xtreme Kermit
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 07:23 PM |
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Top job!
What power do you reckon you will get from the 1.8?
I would love to do a pinto to duratec swap, but I have yet to blow the pinto up 
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Benzine
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 07:44 PM |
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Top stuff 
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 08:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Xtreme Kermit
Top job!
What power do you reckon you will get from the 1.8?
I would love to do a pinto to duratec swap, but I have yet to blow the pinto up
It's a 2 litre 
The oft quoted figure is 195bhp from a stock engine on throttle bodies. If I achieve 180 on a budget I will be more than happy. It will get it on a
rolling road once its in and tuned.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Xtreme Kermit
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 09:36 PM |
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Ah - 2.0 - even better - I misread.
180+ from a stock motor sounds like the way to go.
Thrash it, kill it, replace it with another!
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beaver34
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| posted on 29/3/09 at 09:50 PM |
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looks good, shawspeed do the mounts for duratech, ive got one of there sigma 1600 in a shawspeed car, was looking at the 2.0 to upgrade in power,
but i think 175-180 bhp will do me for now, keep up the good work!
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flak monkey
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| posted on 19/4/09 at 03:11 PM |
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The duratec project is going slowly at the moment due to the problems with the pinto. But things are still moving slowly.
Took delivery of the new bellhousing on friday. Suprised me by how light it was. Secondhand off ebay, but looks like its never been fitted. Paid £120
for it so was worth biding time until once came up! Will allow the engine to go right back in the chassis, the back of the block should end up about
3" from the bulkhead by the looks of it.
For reference there are 2 lengths of bellhousing. 173mm and 192mm to suit the different input shaft lengths of the type 9 boxes. However the
difference in length is on the back of the bellhousing (where it meets up with the box) so the extra material could be milled off if you have one
which is too long, or a 19mm spacer made if you got the short one (if you have access to the equipment of course).
 
Bellhousing 1
 
Bellhousing 2
Also taken delivery of the uprated injectors. Decided to fit larger than std ones at this point incase I feel the need to supercharge or tweak more in
the future. They are ford racing injectors, direct swap for std ones. (Bosch EV6 for reference). Rated at 39lb/hr (410cc/min) so double the capacity
iof the std ones.
 
440cc injectors
 
440cc injector closeup
The cheaper way would have been to use both the std injectors and the bike throttle body ones. But I thought this could look untidy, so decided to
import a new set of injectors from the states. £150 including all the charges was cheaper than getting them over here too!
Next job is get the throttle bodies fitted up and the sump mods completed.
More pics to follow!
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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coozer
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| posted on 19/4/09 at 03:30 PM |
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Love the way your locosting David, what bellhousing is that?
Where did you get the engine and how cheap?
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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flak monkey
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| posted on 19/4/09 at 03:42 PM |
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Bellhousing a duratec to type 9 one, Titan make them for several people (inc burtons and rally design) as well as RWD motorsport, raceline, dunnell
etc. But they all look like they come from the same pattern to me.
Not sure which one I have as its got no markings on it, dont think it makes aby difference!
The engine cost me £400 plus a trip to birmingham to pick it up. Was told about it by a member on here.
Running total is around £520 including the bellhousing and injector upgrade (sold a few surplus parts)
Not much left to buy other than odds and sods. Am keeping an accurate running total though as I am sure people will be interested.
David
[Edited on 19/4/09 by flak monkey]
Sera
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 19/4/09 at 04:35 PM |
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David, do you need a starter? I have a s/h one you can have for the price of a pint. Can take to Stoneleigh if you want it.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 6/5/09 at 07:36 PM |
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Big thanks to Mel for the starter at Stoneleigh! Just needs a clean up.
Sourced a very small brand new denso type alternator from a Honda Prelude for all of £20. Rated at 60amps, which is more than enough!
This will be rigidly mounted to the block right at the bottom on the passenger side. Need to figure out how to wire up the 3 wire regulator though.
Another job for the coming weeks is make the brackets to mount it properly.
 
Alternator
Also sussed out how to tension the aux belt which drives the water pump and alternator. The 2006 onward 1.8 duratec ford focus is fitted with a spring
loaded tensioner. This fits where the power steering pump would normally be on the 2.0 engine. Available from Ford for about £70, but also from the
breakers for about £20. The ford part number is 3M5Q-6A228-AD.
 
Tensioner
Using the std tensioner is a much simpler and cheaper option than offered by several of the duratec companies...especially if you get one from a
breakers and make the alternator brackets yourself.
David
Sera
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Jenko
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| posted on 7/5/09 at 05:04 PM |
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Great thread, and very interesting.....
Have to ask, are you not worried the injectors will be too big for this engine....I would imaging 250's to be more than enough for duratec on
TB's....I would be concerned that they will deliver too much fuel lower down the rev range (when on minimum duty cycle)....I'm using
gsxr600TB's on a 200bhp engine, and they are fine.
As said, there could be a good reason for going 410cc, so just asking.
Paul.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Staple balls
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| posted on 7/5/09 at 05:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Sourced a very small brand new denso type alternator from a Honda Prelude for all of £20. Rated at 60amps, which is more than enough!
where from?
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flak monkey
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| posted on 7/5/09 at 06:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenko
Great thread, and very interesting.....
Have to ask, are you not worried the injectors will be too big for this engine....I would imaging 250's to be more than enough for duratec on
TB's....I would be concerned that they will deliver too much fuel lower down the rev range (when on minimum duty cycle)....I'm using
gsxr600TB's on a 200bhp engine, and they are fine.
As said, there could be a good reason for going 410cc, so just asking.
Paul.
Hi Paul,
The reason for going 410cc is twofold.
1. The biggest reason is that I plan to go forced induction in the future and will be looking for 300bhp. This is right on the limit of the capacity
of even the 410cc injectors, so it was a case of futur proofing the engine at this point.
2. You shouldnt really run injectors at 100% capacity. 410cc for 200bhp means 75% duty cycle at max power.
They could indeed cause problems at low rpm but the only way to find out is to try them.
Megasquirt reckons my req fuel will be 8.2 (for 14.7 afr) with that size injector on a 2litre engine, which still seems reasonable.
Like I say time will tell...
The alternator came of good old ebay. Listed correctly. Most hondas were fitted with very small denso type alternators from the mid 80's
onwards.
David
Sera
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beaver34
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| posted on 7/5/09 at 08:30 PM |
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what spec engine are you going for, and what power are you looking for? im looking at building a duratech to replace my zetec se engine over winter,
but am wanting to know the limits for pistons rods crank etc...., cheers al
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flak monkey
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| posted on 7/5/09 at 09:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
what spec engine are you going for, and what power are you looking for? im looking at building a duratech to replace my zetec se engine over winter,
but am wanting to know the limits for pistons rods crank etc...., cheers al
I am simply going for a 200bhp spec engine. Std internals on throttle bodies. Realistically though if I see 170-180bhp from the budget option I will
be more than happy. After its all fitted and I have had time to save up some more cash then forced induction will be on the cards.
The limit for std rods and pistons is about 230-250bhp. For anything other than the std cams you need pocketed pistons, though the std ones can be
machined cheaply. This should see 230bhp.
After this you need to really start raising the rev limiter to unlock the power and the std rods and pistons arent really up to anything over 7000rpm.
Forged rods and pistons are readily available, but as always you are looking at about £800 for the set. Add a set of cams, followers and springs and
you are soon into the £1500 bracket for that extra 50bhp, so personally I would rather spend that money on a homebrew supercharger system...
There are some good articles on the SBDev site about what mods will give what power outputs.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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beaver34
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| posted on 7/5/09 at 09:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
what spec engine are you going for, and what power are you looking for? im looking at building a duratech to replace my zetec se engine over winter,
but am wanting to know the limits for pistons rods crank etc...., cheers al
I am simply going for a 200bhp spec engine. Std internals on throttle bodies. Realistically though if I see 170-180bhp from the budget option I will
be more than happy. After its all fitted and I have had time to save up some more cash then forced induction will be on the cards.
The limit for std rods and pistons is about 230-250bhp. For anything other than the std cams you need pocketed pistons, though the std ones can be
machined cheaply. This should see 230bhp.
After this you need to really start raising the rev limiter to unlock the power and the std rods and pistons arent really up to anything over 7000rpm.
Forged rods and pistons are readily available, but as always you are looking at about £800 for the set. Add a set of cams, followers and springs and
you are soon into the £1500 bracket for that extra 50bhp, so personally I would rather spend that money on a homebrew supercharger system...
There are some good articles on the SBDev site about what mods will give what power outputs.
thanks, just been on there website, i dont want F/I really, the parts are cheap enough, there are some rods from america for £250, but god knows how
good they are
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flak monkey
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| posted on 11/5/09 at 09:19 PM |
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Slight change of plan with the sump. Although the std transit sump is level with the bottom of the std bellhousing, the rwd bellhousings are 27mm
shorter allowing more ground clearance with a shortened sump. So its been a case of back to the drawing board (literally) so....
I have been working on a cad model for a new sump this evening. Loosely based on the one CairB made for his duratec, but with a few tweaks.
I am planning on getting all of the parts laser cut and then getting a friend to TIG weld it all together for me. This will hopefully be available as
a kit of parts in the future as well for others who want to install the duratec engine (also be an inlet manifold plate available) if all goes to
plan. This hasnt been finalised yet I hasten to add!
The large square holes will have a flap fitted to allow oil into the pickup area but not out of it. The baffles all have 1/2" rad cut outs in
the corners and the rearmost one one in the middle too. I may add more holes part way up the baffles? Top plate is 5mm, all others are 1.6mm.
Anyone see any major problems? Or indeed have any suggestions for improvement? I am not sure if the rear most baffle is of any use? Would it be worth
moving the middle one back slightly and doing away with the back one?
I havent quite finished it yet, as I want to incorporate a plate which also bolts to the bellhousing to make use of the bolt holes and to simply cover
the bottom of the bellhousing neatly. If I can work out a way of making it strong enough then it will be strutural too. I also need to put the holes
in where the front cover bolts on too.
[see below for pics]
[Edited on 19/5/09 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Tim 45
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| posted on 12/5/09 at 09:43 PM |
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Looking good David!
Out of curiosity what changes have you made to the CairB sump?
Based on:
 
DuratecSumpInside
I'd have said they were pretty much the same??
[Edited on 12/5/09 by Tim 45]
[Edited on 12/5/09 by Tim 45]
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flak monkey
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| posted on 14/5/09 at 06:26 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim 45
Looking good David!
Out of curiosity what changes have you made to the CairB sump?
I have updated the design pics above now.
To be honest there doesnt appear to be much difference, I have tweaked a few things mainly because I am getting the parts laser cut, which opens up a
few more possibilities more easily. The last remaining jobs are to decide where to put the dipstick and drain plug and to design in a few features to
make it more simple to assemble.
I have now added in another flap valve in the rear most baffle to allow oil to flow forward more quickly under braking. I have also revised some of
the baffles slightly.
The top and front flanges are thicker (5mm) as well, allowing them to be ground flat after welding them up, as I have the equipment to do so, meaning
less sealer will be neaed to get the sump to seal (there's no sump gasket on the duratec).
I have also added in the windage tray, which is going to get a few more mods to prevent oil climbing the side of the sump under hard cornering.
Talking to CairB he hasnt had any issues with his design on trackdays or the road so its perfectly good as it is. What I am trying to do is develop
the design a little more.
Like I said in the original post, all the parts for mine will be laser cut, and a kit of parts will be available for others thinking of installing the
Duratec too. I will post more details of this as things progress.
Cheers,
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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