graememk
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 06:00 PM |
|
|
MK Roll Cage
Right I have one in kit form, what are people reasons to think it’s wrong before I weld it in?
Should I modify it first?
Constructive answers required please...
|
|
|
|
|
austin man
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 06:08 PM |
|
|
peoples resons are that they dont think it will get through scrutineering. the the double bend at the front affects its strength.
Personally Ive seen an Indy R upside down after a 100mph plus incident and multiple rolls and it stood up to the test.
Get the grinder out clean the area up and weld it in
PS what was the cost of the Kit ?
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 06:31 PM |
|
|
Without meaning to ignite another MK rollcage debate, but just to correct the above slightly, Its nothing to do with doubting its strength on anyone
believing it wont do the job, Im sure its a very good cage, HOWEVER its design (of the front bars) simply does not comply with the the MSA bluebook
regs for rollcages that have not had FIA certification.
Thats all I have to say.
|
|
|
Steve Hignett
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 07:50 PM |
|
|
It must be that every single scrutineer that has passed it (for the last 2 or 3 years) has been blinded by there lovely paint scheme then??? Or every
single scrutineer isn't aware of this "blue book?" as you call it then???
|
|
|
Steve Hignett
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 07:53 PM |
|
|
Graeme, The only "Wrong" things from my POV are: do you have a mounting point to weld it in too? Can you weld to the required standard
etc? Are you going to powder coat or paint (one being signifiantly easier than the other!) Are you going to strip the car down, or just make access to
the weld points etc etc (all common sense stuff basically!!!)
|
|
|
austin man
|
 posted on 6/5/11 at 07:53 PM |
|
|
hasn't Danny's car got the book
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
|
|
|
daniel mason
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 08:00 PM |
|
|
popcorn time! did danny not also get one of the mk builders cars passed with this cage? after everyone said it would not pass
|
|
|
welderman
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 08:06 PM |
|
|
I stopped making the MK style cages because of all the banter between some people on here. The amount of requests I get to make them each week must
mean something.
I would just go for it. Get it welded in and enjoy
Thank's, Joe 
I don't stalk people
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=172301
Back on with the Fisher Fury R1
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 08:39 PM |
|
|
I've read the MSA regs. I don't understand how it passes. Reality is it passes & has been scruiteneered via danny's car and was
passed. I understand why others keep questioning it and understand the annoyance and frustration of people sick of the questioning.
So if you're going to race it under the classes mk's already race it seems to be ok. If you're going on the road its better than not
having it.
Clean up the area first with a flap disk in an angle grinder, pratice on some off cuts welding with lots of amps, trial fit, double check, tack weld,
check, weld fully.
Welderman, can you still bend a hoop if i pop round when i'm next at my parents? At some point I'd like to add a front hoop of my own
design to my car. Just needs a straight tube bending in two places (like a rear hoop top corners but longer legs to chassis floor - if i fancy being
fancy maybe with a windscreen angled bend as well) and a couple more bits for the steel between the front and rear.
(if you'd rather I can send my dad round again, he still talks about your place. He was quite impressed - i guess its the old school engineer in
him surfacing).
|
|
|
welderman
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 09:05 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
I've read the MSA regs. I don't understand how it passes. Reality is it passes & has been scruiteneered via danny's car and was
passed. I understand why others keep questioning it and understand the annoyance and frustration of people sick of the questioning.
So if you're going to race it under the classes mk's already race it seems to be ok. If you're going on the road its better than not
having it.
Clean up the area first with a flap disk in an angle grinder, pratice on some off cuts welding with lots of amps, trial fit, double check, tack weld,
check, weld fully.
Welderman, can you still bend a hoop if i pop round when i'm next at my parents? At some point I'd like to add a front hoop of my own
design to my car. Just needs a straight tube bending in two places (like a rear hoop top corners but longer legs to chassis floor - if i fancy being
fancy maybe with a windscreen angled bend as well) and a couple more bits for the steel between the front and rear.
(if you'd rather I can send my dad round again, he still talks about your place. He was quite impressed - i guess its the old school engineer in
him surfacing).
You can pop in whenever mate. Chuffed your dad was impressed lol. Just let me know when
Joe
Thank's, Joe
I don't stalk people
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=172301
Back on with the Fisher Fury R1
|
|
|
graememk
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 09:21 PM |
|
|
its just for road use, and want to make the woman feel safer in the passenger seat.
|
|
|
DRC INDY 7
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 09:25 PM |
|
|
She will be more than safe with that roll cage ignore all the 5 finger widows on here that just like to cause trouble
https://www.facebook.com/groups/462610273778799/
Puddle Dodgers Club
|
|
|
graememk
|
| posted on 6/5/11 at 09:55 PM |
|
|
dont mnr's have the same double bend ?
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 03:57 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by graememk
dont mnr's have the same double bend ?
yes, but MNR did post up some test images that they claimed showed they had undergone tests and had approval. However the test did not show any
certfication, just image results of tests that had been done. Matt (procomp) rightly stated, that any FIA tested/approved cage will have a sticker of
conformity from the manufacturer of the cage.
[Edited on 7/5/11 by loggyboy]
|
|
|
TimC
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 06:34 AM |
|
|
If someone wanders around a club paddock where there are kit cars competing, you'll see cages that strictly don't comply. There are a few
issues, I believe including, (i) that the regs are so focussed on tin-tops/the steel monocoque design and; (ii) a lack of clarity about the difference
between sports cars and sports racing cars - anyone want to explain which one of these 'kits' fall into these days? Also, (iii) in an
environment where a car does not have to have a MSA Logbook, how do you prove (in a legally robust way) that a chassis was produced after a certain
rule changed i.e. >31/12/04/? Even then, the rules talk about a cage/bar being approved - it doesn't explicitly state that its that
particular roll bar/chassis - I'm no legal eagle but the blue book is full of potential loop-holes. Perhaps more importantly than this however,
(iv) in formulas where only the rear hoop diagonal and backstays are mandatory, does it make sense to turn away a car with a less-than-perfect front
hoop, when they could come back the following week having cut it out and be compliant? That's an obvious answer surely?
It therefore seems that racers and 'scrutes' alike are applying their own interpretation - a 'common-sense' approach even.
This is good in many respects, except when one official's view differs to that of others and someone is not given a ticket to race. While I
understand some of the frustration around the ongoing criticism, I also feel for those competitors and suppliers who bust-a-ball to produce a
by-the-book cage - its often not the easy option. Also, consider what happens if someone is killed and the cage is found to not meet the regs - god
help the club officials; they may have just been trying to help by applying their 'common sense approach', but they're now in court
potentially facing claims from the deceased's family that their incompetence in assessing the ROPS contributed to the driver's death.
From my own perspective, the dash-dodger double bend makes zero-sense to me so I wouldn't use such a front hoop on one of my cars.
[Edited on 7/5/11 by TimC]
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 08:30 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by graememk
its just for road use, and want to make the woman feel safer in the passenger seat.
Go for it, don't worry, take no notice of the doubters as long as your not racing. What I don't understand is all the talk of it not
comply with the regs. So, you takes it off and that leaves the original roll bar which now complies!
Surely, even with te double bend its better than not having it, even, if like mine, its got a double bend and is made out of erw....
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
lewis
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 09:16 AM |
|
|
yawn,the post was not even about double bends,did he mention he was racing in a championship? no he asked what was the best method of fitting a kit
form cage.
im in the process of fitting my mk design rollcage in kit form WITH A DOUBLE BEND!!! and will hopefully have it welded in by the end of the
weekend so will post pictures of how i did it for you.
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 10:00 AM |
|
|
I know I said I was only posting one comment back at the begining of this thread but i cant keep it to that one post now!
quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
popcorn time! did danny not also get one of the mk builders cars passed with this cage? after everyone said it would not pass
You're confusing getting a log book with passing scrutineering, although the logbook means all things like cages, fire extinguishers etc have
been checked by a registered scrutineer, that it conforms to the blue book, each car still needs to pass scrutineering for each race.
This whole issue stems back to Matt from Procomp stating that he had seen MK and MNRs with the double bend refused to race by scrutineers at 750mc
events. So unless Matt got it wrong, somewhere, somewhen there has or is an issue with having a double bend for race cars.
However, for clarity, if this car is a roadcar only then there is 100% no issues with having a cage mased around MKs orginal design!.
I would add though, that if safety is your concern you should also add helmets to your list if you havent already. As allthough a cage makes a nice
safety shell for occupants, it adds an extra danger of being hit in an accident by occupants heads.
quote:
Originally posted by lewis
yawn,the post was not even about double bends,did he mention he was racing in a championship? no he asked what was the best method of fitting a kit
form cage.
I think almost all of the replies have been constructive so far. The OP question was answered within about 2 posts!
|
|
|
brookie
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 10:44 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by graememk
its just for road use, and want to make the woman feel safer in the passenger seat.
sell it me
|
|
|
brookie
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 10:46 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by welderman
I stopped making the MK style cages because of all the banter between some people on here.
i was going to have 1 off u and fit it over the winter dam
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 11:06 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by lewis
yawn,the post was not even about double bends,did he mention he was racing in a championship? no he asked what was the best method of fitting a kit
form cage.
im in the process of fitting my mk design rollcage in kit form WITH A DOUBLE BEND!!! and will hopefully have it welded in by the end of the
weekend so will post pictures of how i did it for you.
He asked... "...what are people reasons to think it’s wrong before I weld it in?
Should I modify it first?"
Then later... "dont mnr's have the same double bend ?"
The answers are to those questions as far as I can see. Can't see the OP asking how to fit it. Has he edited that bit?
For what it's worth... For the road, having seen the MK roll at Oulton, I'd be happy to use it. Whether the wife feels safe will be more
to do with use of the right foot I'd guess.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
lotusmadandy
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 11:14 AM |
|
|
well,i have recently fitted one with a 'double bend' in my indy and if
nothing else it makes feel safer in my car.
As i dont have any intentions of competing in any race series,i couldnt care less
if it is approved or not.
Go for it,it looks great when fitted
Andy
|
|
|
welderman
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 12:38 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by brookie
quote:
Originally posted by welderman
I stopped making the MK style cages because of all the banter between some people on here.
i was going to have 1 off u and fit it over the winter dam
Maybe I should come out of retirement !
Send me a u2u
Thank's, Joe
I don't stalk people
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=172301
Back on with the Fisher Fury R1
|
|
|
Craigman9
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 04:19 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by lotusmadandy
well,i have recently fitted one with a 'double bend' in my indy and if
nothing else it makes feel safer in my car.
As i dont have any intentions of competing in any race series,i couldnt care less
if it is approved or not.
Go for it,it looks great when fitted
Andy
Agreed
Craig
|
|
|
Pezza
|
| posted on 7/5/11 at 04:31 PM |
|
|
I made up some plates and welded them in to take the front legs.
It's a welderman jobby I bought off some chap from here, and it's great 
You couldn't pwn your way out of a wet paper bag, with "PWN ME!!" written on it, from the "pwned take-away" which originally contained one
portion of chicken tikka pwnsala and the obligatory free pwnpadom.
|
|
|
.jpg)
