colimp66
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| posted on 6/10/15 at 09:27 AM |
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Blackbird engined Hillman Imp
New to the forum but have been an avid lurker reading several posts on bike engined cars.
I am planning on fitting a Blackbird engine to my 1970 Hillman Imp to rpleace the original engine but keep it in the same position as the Imp engine
driving through a MX-5 diff that wil be turned and used upside down to keep the drive going in the correct direction.
I have posted a question in the transmission section to see if this is a good idea or are there better diffs to be used in this way.
A photo of the car as how it is at the moment,more to follow.
Cheers
Col.
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 6/10/15 at 11:05 AM |
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sorry can t help on the diff,
But the engine choice any reason for the bird engine? probably ok for road use, but if near a track be on the look out for oil surge etc, plenty of
posts on here if you search for it,
best of luck with the project,
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colimp66
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| posted on 6/10/15 at 11:10 AM |
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No bother.
The reason for the Blackbird motor is nothing other than it was available with all the ancillaries for a good price.
I have read of the oil surge problems and the thoughts of dry sumping/baffling the sump etc which is a bit of a concern. The Imp will be mostly used
on the road as a weekend toy.
Cheers
Col.
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 6/10/15 at 11:13 AM |
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I would question your engine choice. From what I've read Blackbird engines do not fair very well in car installations something to do with the
crankcase and head twisting which results in con rods flying through the casing.
There are plenty of other engines of similar spec: Fireblades, Zx10r, Zx9r etc etc.
[Edited on 6/10/15 by wylliezx9r]
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 6/10/15 at 11:13 AM |
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should be ok for road use, they are a good powerful engine, for the money,
A good baffle plate and poss acusump for road use, should be ok,mine was fine on the road, and made 130 bhp at the wheels
best of luck with it,
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sam919
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| posted on 7/10/15 at 09:58 PM |
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Ok, so the diff will just be rotated over itself from pointing forward in the MX5 site, to facing backwards? not sure how the upside down bit will
reverse the drive rotation as the CWP only goes one way.
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imp paul
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| posted on 8/10/15 at 08:06 AM |
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Hello guys long time since I have posted on here. I hope your all well &  and welcome colimp I think your going to like it on here there are
some fantastic people
[Edited on 8/10/15 by imp paul]
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40inches
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| posted on 8/10/15 at 11:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sam919
Ok, so the diff will just be rotated over itself from pointing forward in the MX5 site, to facing backwards? not sure how the upside down bit will
reverse the drive rotation as the CWP only goes one way.
The CP isn't in the centre of the diff, its to one side of the pinion, so flipping it will reverse the direction of the drive shaft.
The Porche transaxle is used on GT40's, but has to be flipped.
Try it with a round beer mat.
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sam919
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| posted on 8/10/15 at 01:51 PM |
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I see, your right.
I had a look at your pics imp Paul and see youve done the same with a 7".
It all figures in a moment of clarity :-)
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imp paul
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| posted on 8/10/15 at 07:56 PM |
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OK so back to fitting a bike engine in a imp .be aware bike engines are tall not good as it wants to be inside rear parcel shelf ,and above also sump
to floor clearance is very very tight .and then there's diff and motor clearance as the set up is long and goes in to the rear panel just a few
problems lol
[Edited on 8/10/15 by imp paul]
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colimp66
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| posted on 8/10/15 at 08:54 PM |
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Yeh, good points Paul.
Well aware of the height issue regarding the rear panel and know that will need trimming lol. Seen a good few Imps with the K series and Peugeot TU
motors in them that suffer similar issues.
Not sure if a Yamaha FZR motor would be a better choice due to it being at 45 degree angle like an imp motor.
I have the Blackbird motor so will stick with that and work around the issues. A shallow sump will surely help the ground clearance I hope?
How is your build coming along? You still messing with Lambrettas as well?
I once put a Yamaha TZR250 engine in one many moons ago which was great fun for the 3 years i had it.
Cheers
Col
[Edited on 8/10/15 by colimp66]
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capri_big_jim
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| posted on 8/10/15 at 10:00 PM |
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A friend of mine did a simile conversion using an R1 engine and Sierra diff. He made a cradle to mount the engine and diff in that bolted to the imp
engine mounts.
Easier that way to remove if he had any problems.
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colimp66
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| posted on 8/10/15 at 10:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by capri_big_jim
A friend of mine did a simile conversion using an R1 engine and Sierra diff. He made a cradle to mount the engine and diff in that bolted to the imp
engine mounts.
Easier that way to remove if he had any problems.
I have a similar idea with the engine and diff cradle bolting to the Imp rear crossmember where the original gearbox mounts are and across the rear
using the chassis legs so it can all be removed as one unit like you would with an Imp engine and gearbox. Minimum of 4 bolts holding it all in
hopefully.
Cheers
Col.
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imp paul
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| posted on 10/10/15 at 10:13 PM |
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.JPG) .JPG)
engine 7may 07
here you go i removed my frame as i did not find it the way to go as sump is far to low 
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Andybarbet
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| posted on 10/10/15 at 11:00 PM |
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Strange question from me, how stable is the shell on those 2 engine stands ?
My 15 year old son is currently stripping a 1970 imp super & was trying to think of a good affordable way to work on the shell, that looks just
the ticket.
Cheers
Give a man a fish & it will feed him for a day, give him a fishing rod & you've saved a fish.
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colimp66
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| posted on 11/10/15 at 08:27 AM |
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Hi Paul,
Thanks for the photo of your engine in the cradle. The ground clearance is certainly a concern and something I am aware of but can't check until
I get the car back on wheels with the suspension on. Can I assume a shorter sump may help?
Andy the bodyshell has been sitting on the engine stands for the last 6 years and has been turned so many times to repair the floor and everything
else that was needed.
If I was using them again I would cut them so the pivots are at 90 degrees then tie both of the stands together with a bar inbetween them so they dont
spread slightly. I did all the work myself and spun the car easily to to repair it.
If your on the Imp club forum you can check out the build there.
Cheers
Col
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imp paul
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| posted on 11/10/15 at 06:09 PM |
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Hi Colin Im afraid to say it ,but I feel it will be dangerous with the sump . I also fitted a big low sump but still no good Colin ,massive risks
that's why the engine is now midmount
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DIY Si
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| posted on 14/10/15 at 04:01 PM |
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As the blackbird, and most bike engine, sumps are so shallow anyway, cutting it down would be asking to blow the engine up. Bike engines are already
so tightly packaged that if it could be cut down Honda would do it too. Dry sumping might allow you to run a sump plate rather than a proper sump, if
you see what I mean, but otherwise I'd leave it well alone.
Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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sam919
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| posted on 17/10/15 at 08:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by imp paul
OK so back to fitting a bike engine in a imp .be aware bike engines are tall not good as it wants to be inside rear parcel shelf ,and above also sump
to floor clearance is very very tight .and then there's diff and motor clearance as the set up is long and goes in to the rear panel just a few
problems lol
[Edited on 8/10/15 by imp paul]
Sorry for deviating......:-)
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f27
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| posted on 22/10/15 at 09:07 PM |
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I would definitely stay away from the Blackbird engine. I went through 2 in two years and that was just fast road use. They like to throw rods
SOLD - F27 Blackbird, F27 ZZR1400, MK Indy Hayabusa, 3 750MC Crossflow Locosts, Ultima GTR - currently got a MX5 powered Locost racing car
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colimp66
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| posted on 29/3/16 at 10:17 PM |
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Still with the Blackbird motor as that's what I have and progressed quite as bit with my Imp.
Got it down off the spit and on its wheels now with all the suspension fitted.
Once down on the floor I cut a hole in the rear parcel shelf and trial fitted the engine or slid it in onto of my skateboard lol.
Without any weight in the car it sits about 150mm from the floor to the bottom of the sump. I hope to improve that with the possibility of a different
inlet for the carbs or as well as modifying the sump if required.
Cheers
Col
[Edited on 30/3/16 by colimp66]
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Andybarbet
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| posted on 29/3/16 at 10:59 PM |
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That's looking good
Give a man a fish & it will feed him for a day, give him a fishing rod & you've saved a fish.
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hkp57
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| posted on 30/3/16 at 06:52 AM |
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Good luck with the build, I too would be reluctant to use a Blackbird engine. Too many horror stories of blow ups even in road use due to oil
surge.
You cant really go wrong with a fuel injected Fireblade or Yamaha R1 set up, plenty out there at relatively cheap money compared to the Hayabusa and
ZZR14 and Zx12 options.
Have a chat with Andy at the Scottish Kit Car Center in East Lothian, he has just finished a R1 conversion in a rear engined Grasser with a nice self
contained diff unit.
Lots of experience with Honda stuff also, including blown Blackbirds.
Fleet
SKC Raptor R - Hayabusa
Toyota C-HR Hybrid Limited Edition
Honda VFR1200 CrossTourer
DCT
Marlin Roadster 1800
Mercedes Vito 116 Sport
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colimp66
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| posted on 18/5/16 at 02:45 PM |
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Luckily enough I have a connector that will be suitable for transferring the drive from the engine to the diff form a member of the forum. Cheers
Alan
As well as receiving the connector I have started on making the frame up to hold the engine in the the Imp chassis which will then allow me to marry
up the diff with the engine with having the connector, slow progress but I dip into it when time allows. The makings of a propshaft although very
short is being devised in tandem with the rest of the work being done.
Cheers
Col.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 18/5/16 at 03:05 PM |
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I can remember when bike racers put Imp engines in sidecar outfits.....................................
http://www.rjegraphics.com/ENG_MOD_no_graphics/Projects.htmlhttp://www.rjegraphics.com/ENG_MOD_no_graphics/Projects.html
[Edited on 18/5/16 by britishtrident]
[Edited on 18/5/16 by britishtrident]
[Edited on 18/5/16 by britishtrident]
[I] What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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