billy
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 04:22 PM |
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sierra driveshaft swops?
Hi chaps, i need to make new drive shafts up using a push-in joint on 1 end and a lobro bolt on, on the other end. im not sure if the splines are the
same on both ends of the shaft when the joints are taken off? you need to cut the cover off the push in joints to split it, so i cant see if there the
same. anyone done this???
luego-lo-cost finished,vauxhall 16v 2.0,twin 45s de-dion rear set up
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Wadders
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 04:36 PM |
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Hi
im in the process of doing something similar, and have cut open a tripode joint to examine the spline. Splines for lobros and tripode both fit the
diff, but the lenghts are different, depending on what diff you have. To complicate matters further, LSD's have different length splines left to
right.
I'll take some pictures and post them, it might make more sense.
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dr-fastlane
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 04:38 PM |
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Why not cut the two different driveshafts in half. And make a welding bush to connect the two driveshaft parts that you want to use.
Roy.
------------------------------
I have not failed once. I have successfully found ways that will not work!
https://www.motor-forum.nl/threads/hardtail-dragstyle-project.343482/
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mookaloid
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 04:42 PM |
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I've wondered about this myself, not sure if it can be done or not, It would mean fitting disc brakes to a previously drum braked setup would be
easier.....
Mixing the types of joint on the shaft might not be a good idea - this is a gut feeling rather than an informed technical judgement though.
maybe some of the more tecnical bods on here have some thoughts.
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RichieC
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 04:45 PM |
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Hi mate,
Ive recently done this. I used 9" drum shafts from a 2.0 Sierra (not sure which model Im afraid) and CV joints from an XR4x4.
The joints were new but they dont come with the inner joint cover part (the bit which the inner gaiter fat end clips to), just the CV itself. The
covers are no longer available from Ford so you need to get some from a pair of donor shafts (not a problem if your using second hand joints, theyll
probably come with them). I bought a pair of Scorpio CV joints connected to about 6" of their shaft and the joints are the same as XR4x4.
The length of the splined section was different from the 2.0 to the Scorpio (shorter on the drum shaft) but there is sufficient length to fit the CV
and circlip it.
The (Scorpio) lobro shafts had a longer splined portion and it was terminated on the inner side by a second circlip, the drum splines just run out
onto the shaft.
The net result is the same width from CV to diff so that wasnt an issue.
The only problem I can see is finding the correct splined shafts as I found out today there are ones with fewer splines.
Would I do it again? Probably not. It was a fairly fiddly job finding all the bits and Im not convinced the work will be entirely worth the weight
saving. I dont intend this to turn into a drums vs discs debate, but it cost me about 70 quid to fit new Lobro CVs to drum braked shafts to let me
use them in an LSD.
The prime reason I did it was because I wanted to use an LSD and there were no shafts kicking about for that diff. Id also got a back end from a drum
car so when I heard from Marty on the sierra owners club that he had done it and covered 3000 miles with it, I gave it a go.
Kind Rgds
Richie
[Edited on 6/1/06 by RichieC]
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Wadders
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:04 PM |
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Pics of shafts, the lobro pair are from a 3.62 lsd.
Tripode is from an open 3.38
http://locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=shafts1.jpg
http://locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=showphoto&photo=shafts2.jpg
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Flat Pack
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:16 PM |
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I'm in the process of doing this too 
I can tell you the actual shaft part of the driveshaft can have at least 3 different sets of splines on it (I've now acquired 3 different sets
of drive shafts and they're all different  ).
1.3l cars have the smallest ones, I've not bothered to count the number of splines as it's plainly WRONG. It has tripode CV joints
I've got a set of shafts from a mk2 1.8l drum braked car, it has 22 splines on each end and tripode joints.
Finally I've got shafts from a 2.0 with rear discs. It's got 25 splines on each shaft and lobro joints.
Strangely enough I'd just u2u'ed RichieC about the very same thing, he said his tripode joints from a 2.0l Sierra with drums have 25
splines too.
So in summary, I think you need 2.0l drum braked outer joints (25 spline, got a feeling some are different) and inner joints from any disc braked non
Cossie.
[Edited on 6/1/06 by Flat Pack]
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RichieC
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:18 PM |
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Yep, that sounds about right. I understood there to be one shaft spline for all non cossie sierras but that is not the case it seems.
I must have been lucky with the 2.0 sierra shafts combo.
Rgds
Rich
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RichieC
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Flat Pack
I've got a set of shafts from a mk2 1.8l drum braked car, it has 22 splines on each end and tripode joints.
Finally I've got shafts from a 2.0 with rear discs. It's got 25 splines on each shaft and lobro joints.
[Edited on 6/1/06 by Flat Pack]
Just to confirm, that is splines on the shaft not the tripode? Theres scope there to get mixed up cos I counted the splines on the tripode end outer
(so the joint itself not the shaft inside it) and it has 28 splines at the drum end.
Rgds
Richie
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Flat Pack
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:23 PM |
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Wadders, from your pics it looks like you're talking about the spline that actually fits into the diff.
I think the question is about the splines on the end of the rod part of the shafts (certainly that's what I answered anyway!). The drive shafts
we are trying to make up have a lobro joint at that end to connect to a LSD using the original splines into the diff and then a tripode joint at the
wheel end to let use use drum hubs, carriers etc
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Flat Pack
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RichieC
Just to confirm, that is splines on the shaft not the tripode? Theres scope there to get mixed up cos I counted the splines on the tripode end outer
(so the joint itself not the shaft inside it) and it has 28 splines at the drum end.
Rgds
Richie
Yes sorry, all those spline counts are for the 'rod' part of the drive shaft (I've also now butchered several drive shaft covers
finding this out).
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Wadders
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:29 PM |
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Apologies, i misunderstood the first post.
Originally posted by Flat Pack
Wadders, from your pics it looks like you're talking about the spline that actually fits into the diff.
I think the question is about the splines on the end of the rod part of the shafts (certainly that's what I answered anyway!). The drive shafts
we are trying to make up have a lobro joint at that end to connect to a LSD using the original splines into the diff and then a tripode joint at the
wheel end to let use use drum hubs, carriers etc
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RichieC
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:33 PM |
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Exactomundo - the splines on the shaft once the joint has been removed.
Richie
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steve_gus
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:36 PM |
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i have had a shaft cut, modded and welded, but im not happy with it. The shafts are supposedly heat treated, and the welding might affect the
strength.
That said, I think Luego do a sleeve to mod their own shafts......
I think someone on here (name escapes me right now nsdev? - a grasstracker) knows a company that can make a new shaft to suit for about 80 odd
quid.
atb
steve
http://www.locostbuilder.co.uk
Just knock off the 's'!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 05:58 PM |
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Yep, just reading the thread with interest!
Don't quite understand the weight issue and I prefer disc brakes to drums purely from a maintainance point of view (just my silly view,
won't argue with drum favourers!)
Yes, there are a few shaft manufacturers about but the one who does all the grasstrack shafts is GB Engineering, and he will make shafts to suit the
large or small ford Lobro joints to any length for £70 a piece. These are machined from billet and correctly heat-treated EN27 material, extremely
tough, stronger than the std ford ones and MUCH lighter.
The CV's can easily be lightened by machining the excess material off the outer of the (Lobro type) CV cages, leaving the bolts
exposed.................
where are the rest of the heavy bits on the disc setup and I will try and find more light bits!
I'm using the above setup on my 7.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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RichieC
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 06:02 PM |
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I cant remember the thread author but someone weighed them up. There is a marginal weight saving with drum setups vs discs.
The drum shafts are supposed to weigh less in themselves but to be quite honest there wasnt much in it; its just I didnt have rear discs from me donor
parts.
I agree, discs would be my choice for looks but I suppose drums are cheaper.
Horses for courses - ah bugger I said I didnt want to turn it into a disc vs drum thing
Rgds
Richie
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RichieC
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 06:06 PM |
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tada
The saving is not so much in the brakes but in the inboard parts (negated obviously by fitting an LSD)
Rgds
Richie
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NS Dev
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 06:12 PM |
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OK, thought that was the case.
I need shorter shafts anyway as my car is "book track", so the custom made ones will get rid of the weight issue there and the lightened
CV's should help too.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Flat Pack
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 06:36 PM |
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Might just get some new ones made up to take my existing joints then Mine need shortening too and I'm not too keen on cutting and shutting
the ends of 2 different ones as the shafts are all different thicknesses.
The only reason I wanted a tripode joint on the outside is because it's smaller diameter - I'd acquired some Golf calipers and Rally
Design do a mounting kit to fit them to Sierra rear hubs. Unfortunately Lobro joints on the outside then foul the brake banjo...
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RichieC
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 06:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Flat Pack
The only reason I wanted a tripode joint on the outside is because it's smaller diameter - I'd acquired some Golf calipers and Rally
Design do a mounting kit to fit them to Sierra rear hubs. Unfortunately Lobro joints on the outside then foul the brake banjo...
thats sounds interesting, anymore info on using golf calipers? Are they the hydraulic ones raldes do?
Rgds
Richie
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Flat Pack
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 07:06 PM |
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Yeap they're the hydra-mechanical ones from Rally Design. They've got a kit now (don't know if it made it to their website or not
yet though) that consists of the 2 calipers, mounting brackets, discs and pads.
Seems to go together well enough, but I was one of the first people to get it from them and discovered this problem with lobro cv joints.
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RichieC
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 07:09 PM |
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Hmm, this could be the solution to allow a hydraulic handbrake setup
How much was the kit if you dont mine me asking
Cheers
Rich
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Flat Pack
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 07:19 PM |
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Kit was around £230 (not exactly locost!). The calipers have a mechanical handbrake mechanism (as required for SVA) so you need a cable handbrake
still.
The calipers are lighter than Sierra ones and the handbrake mechanism is supposed to be better, not exactly had a chance to put that to the test yet
though
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billy
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 07:35 PM |
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Ive cut and welded my original drive shafts twice now after the huge torque of the xe, and a heavy right foot has sheared the sleeve joint  if there
is a company who can make them up then thats the was to go. i found the diameter of the lobro ended shafts were a bit thicker so the sleeve was not as
snug as id like 1 end, (when i mixed and matched) i need to keep the push in type joint at the wheel end as a lobro joint is to big to fit thro my
de-dion tube Mr dev do you have there tel no for comany who makes the shaft?? cheers
luego-lo-cost finished,vauxhall 16v 2.0,twin 45s de-dion rear set up
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Mansfield
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 09:57 PM |
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I saw this in a car parts magazine.
http://www.cvjoints.co.uk/driveshafts.cfm
Ntdwm.
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