andygtt
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 01:56 PM |
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R1 or Ducati engine!
I've got all the bits to fit my R1 engine..... but I'm having doubts that this is the way to go for me.
I always hanckered over having my 916 engine in a 7... and seeing as the Indy is replacing my Ducati, I'm wondering if I shouldn't just
follow this path now.
I'm not worried about it being 40% less powerful (torque is good though) and I've done my sums and the two options work out about the same
for me as I have a complete newly serviced reliable bike.
Only real negative for me would be the extra work.
But on the plus side, Just imagine the noise from termis on each side of the car.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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colibriman
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 02:02 PM |
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I love ducati's - I used to own a 748. great sound
bad reputation for the clutches being made from chocolate...I would doubt the durability of the clutch.
that sound though.......
need a bike engine? - www.colibriman.com
SVA ready Mk Indyblade possibly for sale.....if the offers good...!
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 02:18 PM |
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r1 all the way your car will be down on acceleration
in all fairness I started my r1 engine the other night with a micron can and that sounded as good as any bike Ive ever heard
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Coose
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 02:18 PM |
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I'm with Colin on this one - stick with the R1.....
Spin 'er off Well...
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 02:23 PM |
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Ditto, but regardless of the reliability concerns, have you done the calculations to make sure the gearing would be suitable?
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andygtt
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 02:57 PM |
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I have absolutelly no doubt the R1 is a better engine and will produce a faster car.
But the thing is I'd never buy an R1 road bike despite the performance advantage over the Duke, and I've got the performance issue covered
elseware.
So why would I want to compramise on a car I'm building?
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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andygtt
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 02:58 PM |
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I'd also say that if I was overly worried about clutches and reliabilty, then I wouldn't be going the bike engine route anyhow.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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G.Man
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 03:23 PM |
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Given the position you are in, deffo go the duke route...
916 engine sounds the dogs, and they arent so down on power as to make them no fun...
Clutches can be uprated, and run dry, the oil delivery system is good...
I loved my 748, but it was just to goddamn small for me... (6'5"
Opinions are like backsides..
Everyone has one, nobody wants to hear it and only other peoples stink!
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Wadders
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 04:07 PM |
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Nice idea, and agree it would sound the mutts.
ST tried a similar thing using a Honda SP1, but it was truly horrible to drive,very on- off and not road friendly at all. they binned it in favour of
the pan euro engine. Personally i'd stick with the R1, its tried and tested in bec applications.
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froggy
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 06:05 PM |
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cant say what peak power is on the 916 but my tl 1000 is 118 at the wheel in the bike and must have a slight torque advantage over the fours at lower
revs.
downside is the primary reduction which is worse than most fours but as mine is mid mounted ive bodged up a double chain drive setup to reverse the
primary reduction before driving the diff
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pathfinder
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 06:05 PM |
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Being a 90° v it could be a total bugger to fit! I’v gone for an Aprilia RSV engine (only just fits into a standard chassis), it sounds just as good,
is more compact and comes with a dry sump…
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oliwb
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 06:29 PM |
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Go for it! R1 deffinately would be easier and maybe better but I would give my left...umhum, for my dad's 999 engine! The sound is amazing and
I don't care what anyone says I have never heard/seen any engine snap from idle to 13,00 rpm and back so quickly...it's
incredible.....plus (I know your fitting the 916 but) the 999 has the same hp as a BMW z4......something to ponder over! Go for it, you'll end
up with something you love and more importantly will be a bit different to what everyone else is running.....surely thats the main reason we're
all building our own cars - individuality! (just on a larger scale than the boy racers!).....Good luck to you though! Think your gonna need
it!.....Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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RichieC
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 07:41 PM |
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No doubt the Duke sounds better for me, BUT, check the final drive ratios, they could be well out for BEC use.
I went through a similar thought process but with a Mille, the ratios arent as favourable as the R1 so as its down on power to begin with, you dont
want to saccrifice too much else.
Have a good look on Google for the ratios.
Rgds
Rich
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andygtt
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 09:04 PM |
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ratios is a good point... will look into that.
Fit is another thing as its almost certainly going to require a power bulg at the side of the car due to the head.
Unless I design something to allow the prop to become central again.
Thought process has started though.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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andygtt
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 10:22 PM |
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Well if I've done me calcs right, the ratios work out that with a 3.62 diff at 10,000rpm it will do 123mph.
[Edited on 9/1/06 by andygtt]
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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oliwb
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 10:35 PM |
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sounds good to me! that car will sound awesome! Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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RichieC
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 11:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
Well if I've done me calcs right, the ratios work out that with a 3.62 diff at 10,000rpm it will do 123mph.
[Edited on 9/1/06 by andygtt]
What ratios are you using? The Mille was only good for 118 with 195/50/15 and 3.62:1 diff.
Rgds
Rich
[Edited on 9/1/06 by RichieC]
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andygtt
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 11:07 PM |
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The final ratio is 0.86 in 6th.... I'm using 215/40/17's. and the ducatti runs a gear reducer between to engine and box of 1.84.
I've just done the measurements and yep, the head will stick out the side of the engine bay a little.... however it should be good for height
etc.
[Edited on 9/1/06 by andygtt]
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 11:08 PM |
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Personally I prefer the Ducati sound anyday of the week. However, the R1 is well proven now and is reliable and fast.
Go for the Ducati then... just to be different, I would!
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Simon
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| posted on 9/1/06 at 11:50 PM |
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Personally I wouldn't use Ducatti for bits for anything other than paperweights.
A friend bought a new Duc a couple of years ago (to much wee taking as we - including him) new about reliability issues.
Anyway, it had a full engine rebuild at less then 3000 and various other faults causing it to spend a fair amount of time being fixed- it's sold
and replaced with a ZZR1100 (12 years old and far more reliable).
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 9/1/06 by Simon]
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OX
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| posted on 10/1/06 at 12:09 AM |
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i also wouldnt touch a ducati,,nice to ride and they sound great,the gear selector forks im told are made of toffee,2 m8s have had the gear box drop
its guts on to the floor,iv heard far more horra stories about the ducati than any other bike,mainly becouse people dont get the belts changed when
they should do.they do not take the thrash other engines do,the clutch would be the least of my worries
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oliwb
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| posted on 10/1/06 at 09:50 AM |
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Dad's been through 5 of them now in the past few years....(only one of them crashed!) The first few were hopelessly unreliable but only because
of the cold starting....one of the mechanics gave him a tip along the lines of - some of them need choke and some don't you just need to
acquaint yourself with your bike and love it into life! Have to say his latest ones (ST4s and 999) both '05 models are as reliable as my mums
BMW Bike! No break downs, no non-starters! People are right about the servicing though....where a normal service is an oil change Ducati's
need a total rebuild (the 999 had done 250 miles before it was time for the engine to be disasembled and reconditioned! Crazy service life but that
noise and the performance!....Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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RichieC
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| posted on 10/1/06 at 12:36 PM |
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Not sure if the 916 suffers the same but a mates 996 was plagued with clutch basket probs and it was astronomical on some of the services as the
desmos need checking (if I understood it correctly, screw jacks open the valves, the tolerances of which need checking regularly)
Not sure how all of this would affect a car which could end up doing more milage than a bike.
No doubt it will sound superb but for me it wasnt worth the ???
Rgds
Rich
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russbost
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| posted on 10/1/06 at 07:54 PM |
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Never mind the Duc or the R1 why not go the ZZR1100 route, cheaper & just as quick as the R1 lump.
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oliwb
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| posted on 10/1/06 at 08:32 PM |
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Ducati, Ducati, Ducati! Deffo! I wanna put one in a Nova for my next little um project! R1 would be the simple choice but that noise! and if
you've got one which you know the history of its gotta be worth it! I would just hangon to the other bits and use the Ducati engine that way if
you find that the 916 needs a dry sump (the hard way!) you can just save some money and hassel and drop the other lump in it.....Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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