onenastyviper
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 07:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
The dealership are adamant they have done nothing wrong and insist that the problem was caused by the sump plug being over-tightened by the previous
Ford dealer who carried out the last service. Spoke to Ford UK customer relations but they can't really help because the vehicle is 13 months
out of warranty, although they did give me an address to write a letter of complaint if I wasn't happy......
Got the dealership principal involved and the best they will do is provide the labour FOC for fitting the sump and they will provide me with a report
and the damaged sump plug to pursue a claim from the previous Ford dealer. I have to pay for the sump pan which is £250, plus the cost of the initial
service.
Looks like I've been shafted on this one...........
Phil
how would they know if it has been overtightened?
they are passing liability onto you, ask for the details of their service agreement and their indemnity insurance...you claim from them they claim
from the previous dealer
could shake them into taking avoiding action
"If I knew what I was doing then it wouldn't be called research would it?...duh!"
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NigeEss
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 08:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RichieW
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but to the the people who repair sumps in their line of work how do you prevent swarf getting into the oil when you
are retapping? I cant see sump removal, retapping and refitting the sump being a ten minute job. Do you do the job with sump in situ and cross
fingers?
Swarf tends to stay local as it sticks to the oily area, careful wiping and often a screw driver with a smear of grease on it
removes most of the bits, any bits left over are tiny and of soft metal and will be collected by the filter.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.................Douglas Adams.
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prawnabie
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 08:09 PM |
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Phil
They should pick up the cost of either a repair to make good or replace.
If Ford are *ahem* daft enough to design a sump which cannot be repaired so the only alternative is a new sump - and they broke it the dealer should
claim the cost of repair from Ford and start a non-conformance against the part for "fit-for-purpose".
Thats the typical narrow-minded view I have to deal with most of the day.
Every time I switch on a light switch or drive my car it wears, does that mean its not fit for purpose? I find the customers I deal with get a lot
more help if they approach a problem with an open mind, looking a both sides of the story rather that spout off about what they have read of seen on
watchdog.
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RichieW
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 08:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NigeEss
quote:
Originally posted by RichieW
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but to the the people who repair sumps in their line of work how do you prevent swarf getting into the oil when you
are retapping? I cant see sump removal, retapping and refitting the sump being a ten minute job. Do you do the job with sump in situ and cross
fingers?
Swarf tends to stay local as it sticks to the oily area, careful wiping and often a screw driver with a smear of grease on it
removes most of the bits, any bits left over are tiny and of soft metal and will be collected by the filter.
Thanks for that NigeEss
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austin man
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| posted on 7/7/14 at 09:18 PM |
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Phil cant you take the sump to Martin Keenan he would repair it in a flash and you know hes reasonably priced
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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ste
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 05:24 AM |
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If you are out of warranty, why not get one yourself from a scrap yard and have them fit it for you?
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 07:56 AM |
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Main dealers only making "proper" repairs really annoys me. I took my Focus for a replacement alternator under warranty. Replacement
alternators were on back order - a five weeks delay - and they would not authorise a courtesy car until I had been without a car for four weeks. I am
a contractor, was working 45 miles away and relying upon my car for work and don't get paid unless I am there. Some days of the week I
can't borrow my wife's car as she is a community nurse and needs it for work too. My local shop could have had a new alternator, made by
the same manufacturer, but without the Ford label on, delivered by 2pm! Totally unacceptable to leave people without their necessary transport for so
long simply because it must be supplied through their official supply chain. Oh and when they finally gave me a courtesy car after four weeks, they
supplied a four seater - despite me warning them repeatedly that we were a family of five!
[Edited on 8/7/14 by SteveWalker]
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onenastyviper
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 09:36 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
Phil
They should pick up the cost of either a repair to make good or replace.
If Ford are *ahem* daft enough to design a sump which cannot be repaired so the only alternative is a new sump - and they broke it the dealer should
claim the cost of repair from Ford and start a non-conformance against the part for "fit-for-purpose".
Thats the typical narrow-minded view I have to deal with most of the day.
Every time I switch on a light switch or drive my car it wears, does that mean its not fit for purpose? I find the customers I deal with get a lot
more help if they approach a problem with an open mind, looking a both sides of the story rather that spout off about what they have read of seen on
watchdog.
Forgive my "narrow minded"ness -  (never been called narrow minded before, first time for everything I suppose  )
It is quite simple - you take it to the dealer because they are a dealer and you expect a certain level of due care and attention, they should have
the necessary skills, training and other systems in place to resolve such eventualities.
Of course, the dealer could equally (and should) carefully explain the situation to the potential customer *prior* to agreeing to the service that the
customer will indemnify the dealer from any incidental or accidental damage caused to the vehicle whilst undergoing the service - a bit like the
carparks which show the disclaimer against any loss or damage incurred whilst staying there.
Alternatively, the dealer could say nothing and hope nothing bad happens..........
"If I knew what I was doing then it wouldn't be called research would it?...duh!"
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prawnabie
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 10:06 AM |
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It is usual pratice for the job sheet that the customer signs, after a damage walkaround has been done, to state that the dealer is not responsible
for anything that happens to the car that is out of there control.
Anywork that the dealer does has to be warrantied. The manufacturer will warrant it as long as it is done to there guidelines - this is the reason
most people take their cars to a dealer - to get ford (in this case) trained people doing the job how ford intended it to be done.
If the dealer does a temp fix, or anything other than what ford specify, the dealer itself is liable and in the case of an engine sump, I can see why
they won't repair it.
Don't get me wrong, I work at a main dealer, and I don't agree with some practices, but if you want a repairer that is flexible in the way
repairs are carried out, you really need to be going to an independant garage. With block exemption, there is no reason not to unless it is for
warranty work.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 10:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by onenastyviper
It is quite simple - you take it to the dealer because they are a dealer and you expect a certain level of due care and attention, they should have
the necessary skills, training and other systems in place to resolve such eventualities.
we that's the first big mistake
these days most dealers employ 'mechanics' for the minimum cost and give them the minimum training
so what they get are largely glorified part fitters that do what the computer / service manual says without stopping to think about whats really wrong
with the car
the good mechanics tend to be the self employed guys in the little local garage who's business relies on repeat custom (rather than just selling
new cars)
but its getting harder to find guys like this now - part of the problem is that being a mechanic is not seen as the best job so 16 year olds with some
brains in there heads get told they should be going to uni (probably to study something that you can't get a job in) and the ones who do the
apprenticeships tend not to be the sharpest tools in the box.
The good garages I know find it really hard to get anyone that's capable and interested in training to be a good mechanic 
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stevebubs
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 01:22 PM |
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I thought main dealers hired "Technicians" nowadays...
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 02:10 PM |
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You cannt blame a technician for stripping a sump plug thread it happens....
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 02:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ian locostzx9rc2
You cannt blame a technician for stripping a sump plug thread it happens....
just to be clear I do accept that these things can happen to anyone
my comments above are just aimed at the main dealers attitude in general.....
they should be able to offer to repair to the sump (with some disclaimers or the repair) just like any other garage would.
the main dealer over the road from me (Vauxhall) does do pattern parts / repair jobs on out of warranty cars if you ask them to - so it is
possible....
[Edited on 8/7/2014 by mcerd1]
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Agriv8
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 02:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
I thought main dealers hired "Technicians" nowadays...
Never trust a Technician ( I am one of the computer sort ! ) and I don't trust myself !!!
I don't know if its still the case but Ford staff used to get paid book time.
So if the book time is 1 hour and the take 10 minutes they get paid for the HOUR and the customer gets charged for the hour so every one is
quid's in. In my MIND that is going to end up with mistakes made. Good for profit & motivating the staff but crap for the customer.
ATB agriv8
[Edited on 8/7/14 by Agriv8]
Taller than your average Guy !
Management is like a tree of monkeys. - Those at the top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces. BUT Those at the bottom look up and see a
tree full of a*seholes .............
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prawnabie
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 04:08 PM |
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At the place I work at, the technician will get paid the same regardless of them goin a 1 hour job in 3 hours or 10 mins. They will get a bonus on how
efficent they are, but it is only paid on how close they are to 100% efficient.
If they do a service in 10 mins they will not get any bonus and the clocking system will highlight there is an issue as soon as they clock off the
job.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 8/7/14 at 05:12 PM |
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Picking the car up tomorrow. They're giving me the original damaged sump and plug and also providing me with a written report, stating why the
damage was caused, so that I can pursue this with either the previous dealership that allegedly over-tightened the sump plug, or Ford UK. I think
I've got a better chance of getting something out of Ford UK but I'm not holding out much hope........
I understand that these things can easily happen. I've done it before myself. But I don't expect Ford trained technicians on £40 per hour
to make simple mistakes like this, unless they've been cutting corners and not working to Fords specifications. Either way, their service sheet
will probably state the sump plug was tightened to the correct torque and nobody can prove otherwise.......
I've now got to foot a £250 bill for something that wasn't even remotely my fault.
Phil
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