nick205
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| posted on 19/12/17 at 02:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by swanny
if everyone is plugged into a smart phone then they wont hear EV coming.
So you build collision avoidance apps into the phone surely?
Certainly an option.
Many cars have front/rear parking sensors which could possibly be used in this role when the car is travelling above say 5mph.
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Sam_68
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| posted on 19/12/17 at 05:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Many cars have front/rear parking sensors which could possibly be used in this role when the car is travelling above say 5mph.
Much above 5mph, and EV's generate almost as much noise as IC cars, anyway.
We've got a good handful of EV's around where I live (mainly Teslas, with the odd I3) and being a rural area you can hear them in
isolation. Surprisingly, it's very difficult to discern a difference between something like a Mercedes saloon and a Tesla when they're
travelling at 30-40mph: almost all the noise they're making is tyre roar.
Bear in mind that at that speed an IC will often be cruising at not much more than tickover speed (maybe 1500rpm, max.). Unless it's
accelerating hard, is exceptionally agricultural, or has a boy racer exhaust system, the engine will be operating very quietly.
The whole noise thing is a red herring, I reckon.
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DW100
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 07:31 AM |
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Most of the motors used by car manufacturers are 3 phase.
You will have a converter to change incoming mains voltage to whatever the battery voltage is (200-800v DC)
Then a converter to turn the battery voltage to 3 phase for the motors and 12v for all the normal car stuff.
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russbost
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 08:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DW100
Most of the motors used by car manufacturers are 3 phase.
You will have a converter to change incoming mains voltage to whatever the battery voltage is (200-800v DC)
Then a converter to turn the battery voltage to 3 phase for the motors and 12v for all the normal car stuff.
So I assume this is the same in F1? That would explain radio instructions like - "stop the car & get out of it immediately" - it also
makes more sense that I seem to remember there are some regulations, possibly in IVA, but may be elsewhere disallowing private builds of high voltage
"kitcars" or one-offs - have I got that right?
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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scootz
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 04:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
Does anyone have links to suitable motors at sensible money?
I guess it depends on what you consider 'sensible'.
The pick is probably the BMW i3 engine. There's one on eBay for £3k or nearest offer. It has the range extender engine attached which you
could remove and sell on to get some funds back. 170bhp and 250nm from a 50kg electric motor. Can't see any battery packs for sale though -
makes me wonder if the breakers are prohibited from selling them(?).
Speaking of battery packs, the BMW one weighs over 200kg... I guess there has to be a penalty somewhere. I have no idea if the motor NEEDS all 200+
kg of those to operate, or whether you could get away for less in a low-weight project vehicle.
Then there's the anxiety of being the first to find out if BMW have locked them down in such a fashion that anyone other than an electronics
engineer with unlimited access to associated technologies could make it run in anything other than an i3.
Also some Nissan and Renault motors out there - not as powerful though.
It's Evolution Baby!
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Sam_68
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 05:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
... I seem to remember there are some regulations, possibly in IVA, but may be elsewhere disallowing private builds of high voltage
"kitcars" or one-offs - have I got that right?
You can build electric 'kitcars' or one-offs, but the testing regime is in addition to IVA and is expensive.
The current Section 69 in the IVA manual demands that electric vehicles must have been mass produced to ECE R100, or has been individually tested to
the same standard. Cost of individual testing to ECE R100 is circa £6-7K.
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scootz
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 05:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
... I seem to remember there are some regulations, possibly in IVA, but may be elsewhere disallowing private builds of high voltage
"kitcars" or one-offs - have I got that right?
You can build electric 'kitcars' or one-offs, but the testing regime is in addition to IVA and is expensive.
The current Section 69 in the IVA manual demands that electric vehicles must have been mass produced to ECE R100, or has been individually tested to
the same standard. Cost of individual testing to ECE R100 is circa £6-7K.
£6-7k for testing... ouch!
Well, that'll be the end of that then - was just about to offer myself as a team guinea pig and stick an offer on the i3 motor as well.
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 05:28 PM |
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However... what if it was a conversion on an already registered car from petrol to electric? Would the testing still be a requirement?
It's Evolution Baby!
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scudderfish
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 05:39 PM |
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Provided you don't mod the chassis etc that would trip a re-IVA test, I don't see why not.
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Sam_68
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 05:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
However... what if it was a conversion on an already registered car from petrol to electric? Would the testing still be a requirement?
Yes, is my understanding.
ETA in response to Scudderfish's post: it is my understanding that VOSA has made clear that any vehicle having been converted will be subject to
compliance, triggered by the application to change the fuel type on the V5 - regardless of any other alterations..
It's early days for EV's as part of the UK specialist car industry , of course, so it's possible that the regime may be made more
flexible in the future (but don't bank on it).
[Edited on 20/12/17 by Sam_68]
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scootz
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 06:01 PM |
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Good info. Thanks.
It's Evolution Baby!
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UncleFista
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 06:14 PM |
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If anyone is interested in how the national grid ratio of electricity differs between gas/coal/wind etc. in real time.
This link is great 
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
... I seem to remember there are some regulations, possibly in IVA, but may be elsewhere disallowing private builds of high voltage
"kitcars" or one-offs - have I got that right?
You can build electric 'kitcars' or one-offs, but the testing regime is in addition to IVA and is expensive.
The current Section 69 in the IVA manual demands that electric vehicles must have been mass produced to ECE R100, or has been individually tested to
the same standard. Cost of individual testing to ECE R100 is circa £6-7K.
but secn 69 'Electric/Hybrid vehicles' is currently:
quote:
Section included for information only.
DVSA will carry out a visual inspection only as per General
Construction
and
quote:
69 Electric/Hybrid Vehicles – For information only
edit:
I suspect they will start allowing pre-approved 'modules' for battery, motor and controller
[Edited on 20/12/17 by gremlin1234]
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Sam_68
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| posted on 20/12/17 at 09:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
I suspect they will start allowing pre-approved 'modules' for battery, motor and controller
Yes, I suspect you're right. And possibly even beyond that, if the will to keep IVA alive remains after Brexit.
I think at the moment it's a combination of them being caught on the hop by the sudden emergence of EV's as serious, mainstream vehicles,
and lack of familiarity among their testing staff.
I'm no electrician, but when you actually read ECE R100 it in fact comes across as pretty straightforward. Once the testers start to become
familiar with EV's, I don't think that it would be impossible to bring the key bits of ECE R100 within IVA, directly.
The pessimist in me says that it won't happen, because there isn't much of a will to retain IVA... the UK kit car industry is fading, and
after Brexit the low volume manufacturers like Lotus, Ariel and Morgan will have to play by Europe's rules, or die, 'cos there isn't
a big enough domestic market to sustain them.
But we digress...
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Benzine
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| posted on 21/12/17 at 12:11 AM |
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I'm building an electric trike at the moment to go through mSVA. Hope that 6k testing doesn't apply to mSVA or I'll just have to
drive it round my drive 
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 21/12/17 at 02:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by swanny
if everyone is plugged into a smart phone then they wont hear EV coming.
So you build collision avoidance apps into the phone surely?
Agreed.
However deaf people have been not getting run over for years, and I've been cycling with headphones for about 2 decades without being almost hit
due to not hearing. In both cases, you just compensate by actually looking, instead of assuming you'll hear stuff.
However even just walking round a city centre and you want to beat people to death for being totally unaware of their environment. I think really
it's just a person thing - if you're that dozy, you'll get squashed.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 21/12/17 at 12:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
However even just walking round a city centre and you want to beat people to death for being totally unaware of their environment. I think really
it's just a person thing - if you're that dozy, you'll get squashed.
A year or so back my wife and I stopped off in Hong Kong, on our way to Australia. The roads and drivers there are scary and crossing them is
hazardous, even when you're fully alert and looking around carefully. I couldn't believe the number of young women walking around with
their eyes firmly fixed on their phones, even as they step out into the road. It was bad enough trying to avoid them when walking along the pavement!
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hughpinder
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| posted on 21/12/17 at 01:15 PM |
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So the BMW i3 motor weighs 50 kg, the tesla 100kwh battery is 183 kg, control gear 25kg? total 258 kg say?
Zetec+gearbox+ancilliaries 186kg, battery 10, fuel tank _ fuel _ pump 40kg , exhaust, radiator, fan 20- total 256kg - might not be that much in it
overall!
I dont know how bulky th tesla battery is though.
Happy Christmas everyone,
Hugh
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russbost
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| posted on 21/12/17 at 01:26 PM |
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Unfortunately, if all you're going to be able to do is to modify an existing vehicle there's not a lot of point, as you can buy a 2nd hand
Leaf with an owned battery for around £6-7k.
There are plenty of Prius batteries on Ebay for around £500 or so, but I seem to remember it has a pathetically low kWh rate?
There's one Leaf battery from 2015 car for £4500  Bargain or what - NOT!
I suppose if you are still allowed to modify an existing car then there's nothing to stop that from being an existing kitcar? .........
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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hughpinder
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| posted on 21/12/17 at 01:56 PM |
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Prius battery = 1.31 kWh
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hughpinder
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| posted on 21/12/17 at 01:57 PM |
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Nissan Leaf about 24kWh
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russbost
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| posted on 21/12/17 at 03:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
Prius battery = 1.31 kWh
So that would drive the BMW i3 motor flat out (127.5kW) for just over 30 seconds, I did say the Pious (misspelling intentional!) battery was
pathetically tiny - I hadn't realised just how stupid it was! Might be useful for an electric pushbike, but not much else ...........
Presumably with any battery packs & motors coming from existing electric & hybrid vehicles, I'm guessing they probably all run at
different voltages? Is there any standardisation?
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
