Volvorsport
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 03:34 PM |
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watch this space .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Mix
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 04:11 PM |
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I have experience of kevlar used in both structural and cosmetic applications. I would agree that it is a viable, (though probably rather expensive)
option for panels. I would not consider it suitable for flooring in its basic laid up form with no other form of protection.
Mick
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britishtrident
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 05:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
a fully bonded kevlar floor would tho
GRP --Marine Ply- Grp fully bonded would make a goo floor and rear bulkhed.
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kb58
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 05:29 PM |
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quote:
Kevlar is lighter than carbon fibre and is cheaper and represents the best kind of panneling if you can work it.
That's the key, if you can work it. We use a waterjet... which isn't much help for the rest of us...
[Edited on 1/27/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 07:13 PM |
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a GRP bonded marine ply floor would be like having a garage roof underneath ya - sry - i used to GRP roofing .
It would in essence lead us to marcos chassis .
i think using coremat and some good decking paint(polyurethane) would leave a strong and durable enough finish for most of us .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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chunkielad
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 09:30 PM |
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I think I'll just use Ally and rivet it!!!!
Sorry to start this guys
I'll double fold into the chassis and fix internally.
Interior panels (OMG did I just say that) will cover them!
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kb58
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 10:24 PM |
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Then plan ahead that you have enough room for the rivet tool. It's all too easy to drill holes in a corner where it's impossible to get
the head of the riveter into...
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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chunkielad
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| posted on 27/1/05 at 10:36 PM |
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Good point mate 
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timmy
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 12:32 AM |
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Another idea on panelling
Has anyone ever considered using polycarbonate (lexan) as panelling on their car? I was planning on building my bonnet out of it, but then thought
about panelling the rest of the car in it. It's damn near unbreakable and certainly won't show up any dents like the ali would. And
it's lighter (particularly the 1.5mm stuff)
One drawback is you need a brake press to fold the stuff, but once you rivet it on it won't go anywhere.
So you can have a totally clear side panelling if you don't feel like painting it.
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kb58
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 01:37 AM |
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1. It's rather soft. 1.5mm would be like a piece of cardboard in rigidity. It won't stiffen the chassis any.
2. It is very temperature sensitive. I have a Lexan interior bulkhead window between me and the engine. Assuming worst case, from freezing to
150deg F or so, the 48" window widtd will change length by 1/4", or about 6mm!!! How will your rivets deal with that.
3. It'll get scratched up easily.
4. It's expensive.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but it's an expensive way to go that you'll probably not be happy with.
[Edited on 1/28/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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chunkielad
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 09:19 AM |
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Maybe welding thin panels is now possible without warpage
Metal Cooler
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Peteff
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 10:30 AM |
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He's gas welding.
You don't get that much spread with mig anyway. If you button weld through 8mm holes you should be able to avoid distortion if your sheet is
well clamped.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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chunkielad
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 11:53 AM |
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I have a low powered Arc welder (the mig I got died and had to go back)
It'll work to 80 amps and 5mm steel (more than enough for any part of the car) and will go down to 1.5mm (or so it says)
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kb58
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 03:34 PM |
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You don't need hi power to weld sheet, just the opposite in fact. You want to put the minimum amount of heat into the sheet to avoid
warpage.
How about brazing the panels on? The appeal is that it's less heat, plus the brazing would flow between the panels making them extremely
strong, far stronger then welding because of the larger surface area. It also solves the corrosion issue, since the space between the sheets is
brazed, it won't rust.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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andyps
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 03:59 PM |
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I saw a Lotus 340R (the totally stripped back Elise) which had a polycarbonate body. It was quite thick but teh weight saving it had over the usual
fibreglass body was amazing. See more about it here
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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chunkielad
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 04:50 PM |
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Braising - now there's an idea!!
I will have to get the gear for it though unless I can find someone local.
Watch this space it may just be the way to go!!!
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kb58
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 05:03 PM |
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I hope someone who's done it can chime in. My only concern is that brazing an entire sheet onto the car is going to make that portion of the
car expand quite a bit. When it all cools down I'm not sure what will happen. Worst case it might end up with ripples. Has anyone tried
this?
[Edited on 1/28/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Dale
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 05:15 PM |
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I would not be too worried about warping the sheet but I think it would cause some warping of the chassis.
Dale
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 28/1/05 at 07:10 PM |
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To braze effectively, you need to get both pieces to an equal temperature. You would need to throw a great deal of heat into the chassis, and very
little into the sheet. Brazing heat is cooler, but is spread over a much learger area so the distortion in the sheet would be epic, but you could use
you sexy ahotalene to shrink it back. Distortion in the chassis would be a different matter, but it may bring the front end down (most home built
chassis's have an upward distortion at the front end).
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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chunkielad
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| posted on 29/1/05 at 07:32 PM |
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I think I'm gonna start my doing the floor pan with holes and plug welds.
Then, if it works well, I'll do the sides, if not, it won't be too much of a worry for distortion as you won't see it!!!
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Dale
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| posted on 29/1/05 at 09:43 PM |
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A tip on the plug welding of your floor pan.
I drilled my floor pan for the plugs and then used an adhesive on the edges of the tubes and clamped in on-- aparently not quite tight enough and to
top it off----some of the adhesive ouzed into the holes to make welding a pain in the ass. to put it as politely as possible.
I ended up stitch welding the inside edges of the tubes from inside the car as well just for my piece of mind for safety.
I would not use the adhesive if i did it again-- I would use a sealer on the edges after all welding was done.
Dale
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chunkielad
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| posted on 29/1/05 at 10:05 PM |
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Yes mate thanks for that - I was planning on doing a plug weld and sealer anyway if I go that route as it'll make sure that the space between
the panel and the frame has less chance of rusting.
Then on the outside, considered a long weld where the body panel and floorpan meet then a tidy up with a grinder and file should make a nice neat job.
If the heat doesn't cause any warpage, it'll look great and would maybe even turn the space frame into a semi monocoque.
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