Rorty
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| posted on 22/10/05 at 12:39 PM |
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De Dion assembly drawings updated.
I amended the PDF file so the Panhard bits are now correctly refered to as Panhard bits (funnily enough) and not Watts bits as originally.
I don't know what my brain was doing at the time! 
I've also specced the size of the hub retaining bolts.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 23/10/05 at 03:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
You mean in 'other' countries people take responsibility for their own actions?
Well, that used to be the case in the UK, but the governemnt aren't too keen on personal responsibility, hence the explosion in the number of
blood sucking, insurance claims services. "Where there's blame, there's a claim" 
Just to add something relevant to the thread:
Rorty, I bought a GTS de-dion axle because one of my worries was getting the bearing carrier mounting plates perfectly parallel and exactly in-line.
For those contemplating building this, do you have any cunning tips, or is it a case of measure twice, cut once, throw it away and have another go?
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/10/05 at 04:00 PM |
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Very Impressive -- neat -- cool -- hot -- sweet --- and and other adjective that means you diid a good job.
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Rorty
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| posted on 24/10/05 at 04:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Rorty, I bought a GTS de-dion axle because one of my worries was getting the bearing carrier mounting plates perfectly parallel and exactly in-line.
For those contemplating building this, do you have any cunning tips, or is it a case of measure twice, cut once, throw it away and have another go?
I contemplated writing a full manual to accompany the drawings, but thought most people would follow it all OK. Adding complete descriptive text
usually requires further drawings of jigs etc. and I got to the point where I began to think less charitable thoughts!
I did wonder though how long it would be until someone asked about aligning the De Dion tube and hub plates. 
There's nothing complicated about setting the tube and plates up and there are several ways I've done it previously.
1. An expensive option, though the most accurate way I did it (for four identical axles) was to cut the toe-in angles onto the ends of a length of
125mm x 125 mm x 6mm SHS. I then tack-welded some pre-drilled and tapped flanges on the ends of the RHS and then finally machined the faces of the
flanges accurately after the welds had cooled.
It was then a simple job of bolting each set of hub plates to the beam and cutting and welding in the De Dion tubes.
2. Basically the same as above, but without the expensive machining. I tacked a couple of spare hub plates to a steel beam (the side of my chassis
stand). Before welding the second plate to the beam though, I clamped a length of angle iron to each plate and measured the ends, much as in setting
the toe on the front of a car, then welded them solid.
Then as in the previous suggestion above, the actual hub plates were bolted to the ones welded to the beam and the De Dion tube added.
The actual toe angle depends really on whether you anticipate spirited or leisurely driving.
For a Locost, I would probably aim for ½°-1° total toe-in.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 24/10/05 at 05:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Very Impressive -- neat -- cool -- hot -- sweet --- and and other adjective that means you diid a good job.
Those are indeed (many) kind superlatives, and, coming from you, are much appreciated. 
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Steve Hnz
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| posted on 26/10/05 at 11:30 AM |
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Rorty, Thats a really neat bit of design work & will save me a heap of work on my effort. Many thanks for your efforts.
A couple of queries if I may?
I'm assuming that the trailing arm mounts are designed for book length arms which from memory are about 304mm ( 12" ) ?
Yor panhard mount on the tube, which you describe as being made from 4140(?), is this one piece?, & is the seperate piece shown, like a washer
with one conical side, is that the safety washer? Thats what I've taken it as, sorry if this sounds thick.
Thanks, Cheers Steve.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 26/10/05 at 02:17 PM |
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How many people on here know what 4130 and 4140 are? How difficult is it to get?
And do they know it has to be welded very carefully with special filler material? I had to search the inet to find out.
Ordinary mild steel is what the book specifies, is this good enough?
I've got plenty of stainless to hand, use it in the salt, can I use that?
Sorry for the Q's
Nev.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 26/10/05 at 05:16 PM |
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Why would you want to use 4130 or 4140.
You DEFINITELY don't want 4140, it is a tool steel!
4130 would be nice but as you say needs careful welding and to make any advantage out of it you will need very thin section tubing, which will be a)
very tricky to get hold of and b) very expensive.
cheers
NS (engineer in an alloy steel tubemaking plant!!)
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 27/10/05 at 03:21 PM |
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I am a bit confused by this now. Rorty said a few posts back that he preferred 4130 and somewhere mentioned 4140.
So what do I use? We have plenty of 316 and 306 stainless in the shed, is this ok?
Nev.
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Rorty
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| posted on 28/10/05 at 04:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hnz
Rorty, Thats a really neat bit of design work & will save me a heap of work on my effort. Many thanks for your efforts.
A couple of queries if I may?
I'm assuming that the trailing arm mounts are designed for book length arms which from memory are about 304mm ( 12" ) ?
Yor panhard mount on the tube, which you describe as being made from 4140(?), is this one piece?, & is the seperate piece shown, like a washer
with one conical side, is that the safety washer? Thats what I've taken it as, sorry if this sounds thick.
Thanks, Cheers Steve.
Steve,
if you download the PDF file and look at drawing # 08, you'll see the mount is one piece and the safety washer is another separate item.
Actually, that spec should read 4340 and not 4140. I'll fix that.
The safety washer is there in case the bearing ever pulls out of the rod end, in which case the washer prevents the rod end's body from becoming
completely detached from the mount.
In the rare event it happens, you'll hear a thump and the car will become a bit loose, but it will allow you to pull over safely.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 28/10/05 at 04:24 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
How many people on here know what 4130 and 4140 are? How difficult is it to get?
And do they know it has to be welded very carefully with special filler material? I had to search the inet to find out.
Ordinary mild steel is what the book specifies, is this good enough?
I've got plenty of stainless to hand, use it in the salt, can I use that?
Sorry for the Q's
Nev.
4130 and 4140 are SAE alloy steels, but they're imported into Britain and here too. Actually, that should be 4340 and not 4140 (though you could
use 4140 if you had a lump of it).
You may have more luck obtaining EN24T in the UK though, as that is the Euro equivalents.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Rorty
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| posted on 28/10/05 at 04:27 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Why would you want to use 4130 or 4140.
You DEFINITELY don't want 4140, it is a tool steel!
4130 would be nice but as you say needs careful welding and to make any advantage out of it you will need very thin section tubing, which will be a)
very tricky to get hold of and b) very expensive.
cheers
NS (engineer in an alloy steel tubemaking plant!!)
My mistake; it should have read 4340. Even so, 4140 does get used for high strength welded fasteners on some race cars etc. though I use it mostly for
making axles.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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Steve Hnz
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| posted on 29/10/05 at 08:37 AM |
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Thanks Rorty, I've got that now, I'm Ok with the rest ( I hope), off to look for someone with a lump of 4340
Cheers, Steve.
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flying_coffin
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| posted on 12/8/06 at 07:47 PM |
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Drive Shaft
Sorry if this is a dumb question and sorry to drag up this tread again...
However, just to satisfy my mind, are the drive shafts from the Sierra standard lenght or have they been modified in any way.
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cymtriks
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| posted on 22/8/06 at 10:26 PM |
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That's a big tube!
A four inch Deon tube in 14 gauge is fairly hefty.
Caterham used a 2.5 inch tube (I don't know the gauge) and the LaBala project uses 3 inch 16 gauge.
I reckon a 2.5 inch tube in 14 gauge would be man enough or 3 inch in 14 gauge to allow some leeway in welding skill.
Surely four inch would hold up a monster truck?!?!?!?
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