DarrenW
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| posted on 15/11/06 at 10:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Coose
quote:
Originally posted by James R
I know you said xe or zetec, but have you considered a 1.8 k series vvc? They make 160bhp as standard, or 175 from the lotus tuned brm one.
175 bhp for a week, until the head gasket goes.... 
You are right, Rover is an option but i too had heard of some reliability issues. There are loads of engines about. i was just trying to narrow down
the research a bit before making final decisions. My head is battered enough just by considering 3 choices
It looks like the Pinto will remain. OK, its not sexy etc but i have to say my experience of it so far is quite good. I dont have much experience with
engines sadly and working on the sohc is giving me a good insight. When i bought mine it was largely unknown apart from i know it was out of an
injected Sierra. That said it hasnt let me down this year and ive enjoyed 3,500 miles. If i now mod the bottom end as the major project, future mods
(ie BV ported head etc) are basically just bolt on. Ill have the bike carb manifold soon and already have all of the megajolt bits so plenty to be
getting on with over the winter.
Right now im trying to decide if id be better retaining 2.0 or go for 2.1. (Decking the block and fulling lightening / balancing is a given). 2.0 is
slightly cheaper and allows me to consider some pro head porting. I cant believe the 0.1 increase by chucking in bigger pistons will make that much
difference (upping to between 2.2 to 2.4 certainly will but this involves crank mods which improves the bore:stroke ratio etc).
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 15/11/06 at 12:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by James R
I know you said xe or zetec, but have you considered a 1.8 k series vvc? They make 160bhp as standard, or 175 from the lotus tuned brm one.
Nice engine. The VVC engine requires that you use the Rover induction system and ECU imobiliser, which may not be a problem if it comes with the
engine and it fits. Not sure if there are aftermarket ECU's suitable for the VVC?
Also the type 9 bellhousings seem to be very expensive for the K series
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iank
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| posted on 15/11/06 at 01:01 PM |
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Emerald seem near to having VVC control, but seem to need a victim^H^H^H^H^Hvolunteer to finish the job on a NA engine.
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_projects_VVC.html
They have VVC working on VTEC IIRC so there should be no fundemental problems.
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coozer
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| posted on 15/11/06 at 10:56 PM |
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Darren, there is a 1.8 zetec on here for sale at £125. Grab it, fit some 2.0L cams, swap the bits from the Pinto and fit the ZZR carbs and you will
have 155bhp for a lot less than £500.
Zetec engine is considerably lighter than the Pinto as well so should be the same as the 160 you are after. Think turbo and 350bhp......
I'm fitting ZZR1100 carbs to my zetec at the moment and have all the bits sorted to mate it to my type 9. Giz a shout if you want to see it
mate.
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 09:37 AM |
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I thought the 1.8 was only 105bhp std which led me to think it would take a lot of work and pennies to get it up to 150 - 160 mark.
Its not just the engine and fuelling that would need to be changed. Sump, water rail, engine bay wiring loom, clutch, new exhaust etc. All in it would
cost me a lot more than to mod the Pinto. I know it can be bodged to keep cost down but i dont do bodging.
As with all things in life there are pros and cons. Engine swaps / changes seem to be more complex than others. I know the pinto is old and heavy but
the car is designed for it and it has proven to be reliable so far. The other driver is that i may not have an awful lot of time at my disposal to do
the mods, and also with xmas being a valuable family time of year i want to be careful how many hours i spend in garage (my choice, kids arent little
for long).
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mcerd1
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 09:44 AM |
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quote:
If i now mod the bottom end as the major project, future mods (ie BV ported head etc) are basically just bolt on. Ill have the bike carb
manifold soon and already have all of the megajolt bits so plenty to be getting on with over the winter
My plan from the start, build a bottom end I should never have to change - but as usual I went a bit OTT
(205 Pinto + cossie crank & conrods + forged 93mm pistons = good for ~9000 rpm = plenty room for head mods etc later)
quote:
Right now im trying to decide if id be better retaining 2.0 or go for 2.1. (Decking the block and fulling lightening / balancing is a given).
2.0 is slightly cheaper and allows me to consider some pro head porting. I cant believe the 0.1 increase by chucking in bigger pistons will make that
much difference (upping to between 2.2 to 2.4 certainly will but this involves crank mods which improves the bore:stroke ratio etc).
I've always been led to believe that the difference between 2.0 and 2.1 was worth it and if you don't do it you'll always wonder if
you should have
but I'd forget the 2.2, 2.3 & 2.4 versions they will cost far to much, like warrior 16v heads (@ more than £5000+VAT)
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 09:54 AM |
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You know what I think Darren!
Up to the 160hp mark, I'd definitely stick with the pinto.
It "might" not be the cheapest option comapred to a zetec, but there won't be much in it, as you say there are always hidden
costs.
You also get the satisfaction of doing it yourself with the pinto, and that's where the cheapness of gasket sets and spares in general is really
nice. You can afford to pull the head off a few times and it not cost a fortune, whereas doing that on an XE or zetec quickly costs a lot of money!
There's lots of billy talked about zetec power outputs, I'd like to see some rolling road or dyno results rather than guesstimates. The XE
figures I quote are from my own engine proven on a (reputable) rolling road.
Mookaloid's pinto shows what can be done for very reasonable money, so go for it!!!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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procomp
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 10:01 AM |
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Hi for uprated rods on the pinto dont they use the deisel ones to get around regulations that state std parts. I think but could be thinking of
another engine.
cheers matt
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 10:02 AM |
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Fiesta 1600 diesel conrods, but they need a fair bit of modding and are not easy to find now, but they are steel.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 10:06 AM |
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Cheers Nat, sound advice as usual. Whilst doing the research iv had to have my billy filter steam cleaned a few times
Im only too aware that rolling road operators can send customers away either delighted or devastated depending on their mood and professionalism.
Unless tested on an engine dyno flywheel figures are purely estimated from the wheels figure which can also be inflated by playing around with the
correction factors.
What i want is solid power from a solid source with no hidden costs / nasty surprises and this equates to Pinto.
Ihave spoken at length to Mooky, hes a great bloke and doesnt do billy. Ive also searched Jacko's threads - he quotes 140 at the wheels and
superb drag times - many a person would fudge the two together and say it must be more like 160 at the wheels. As i have said before ill be lucky to
have 115 at flywheel, -17% = 95 at wheels. Even this is fun. Increase to 140 is approx + 50%!!!!! And that is achieveable in the garage at home.
Im quite fired up about building my own engine. Im now trying to think how i can broach this with the engine builders so they take me seriously and
dont just think im penny pinching.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 10:18 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by procomp
Hi for uprated rods on the pinto dont they use the deisel ones to get around regulations that state std parts. I think but could be thinking of
another engine.
cheers matt
Apparently the 1600 diesel rods when modded properly allow sustained revs at approx 7,500 iirc for race engines built to a budget. Ihave the injection
engine which apparemntly has slightly better rods than older pintos for occasional blips tp 7,500. In reality i doubt i will ever get it up that far
on a regular basis. Perhaps around 7K on trackdays for a second or two occasionally if balance allows.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 10:59 AM |
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Old carb'd pinto's had forged rods but with a major week point
Injection pintos have better designed but are cast so are only a little stronger
The 1600D rods have a much smaller big end and need the crank to be offset ground and a few other mods
Cossie rods are (very) big strong forged steel things but 0.06" [1.524mm] longer than pinto ones (so you need to be carefull with piston
choise)
and have a floating gudgeon pin (ideal for forged pistons)
also they don't have the oil spray jet (some people say you can run without this, but I got a cossie spray bar anyway)
your other option is the forged pinto rods (Holbay or similar) but they are far from cheep
- So as long as you've got a good set of injection rods, they are probably your best bet
[Edited on 16/11/06 by mcerd1]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 02:48 PM |
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yes, you'll be fine with std rods, but as I said, while you are doing the engine, get your engine builder to shot peen them. He'll need
some protectors in nylon or wood for the big end little ends, just turn them up on a wood lathe, pairs of top hats with a screw through them do the
trick. Cheap to do and just gives you a bit of peace of mind. Use ARP or Arrow or similar rod bolts and you'll be fine for 7000 rpm on a regular
basis.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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