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Author: Subject: which is faster
cossiebri

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:14 PM Reply With Quote
Which is faster

So is my zx9r locost going to be faster than my mate's xe powered one?









If it doesn't fit MODIFY it!!
Cheers BriF

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JoelP

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:27 PM Reply With Quote
unless he starts to tune it, in which case, you need nos.

Smart51, any chance of you being bothered to do the same graph as distance versus time? To see which should actually have the lead?

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Marcus

posted on 19/1/07 at 10:32 PM Reply With Quote
quote:

I remember a few years back at Donington Park having a little bit of fun with a BEC Blade.



Ah, the Cosworth vs Isonblade! Those were the days!
Hang on, he's got it back now - rerun perhaps?





Marcus


Because kits are for girls!!

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TangoMan

posted on 20/1/07 at 03:09 PM Reply With Quote
Looking at that second graph it shows the BEC changing into second at about 52-53mph.

I thought a BEC would do 60 in first which was why they got there so quick.

Interesting figures though as I hope to get around 190-200bhp next winter with the second set of upgrades.

As for the answer, obviously BEC is best, sorry that should read second best .

A BEC may be faster acceleration but which would be faster is real term driving speeds, ie between 40 and 80 for overtaking.

I fancy a BEC for trackdays but would not consider one for extended driving and long journeys like Le Mans.





Summer's here!!!!

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Jon Ison

posted on 20/1/07 at 03:25 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hicost
I remember a few years back at Donington Park having a little bit of fun with a BEC Blade.

Both cars had two people in we nearly lapped the blade in 5 laps.

Now before the other driver arrives, this was a bit of fun on the day, in the days of camping BBQ's and loud music all weekend.

He will also state he had shite tyres.

He will be along soon.


He will be along now.................

Yup bit of artistic license been used there me finks.............

What it should have read is it took five laps too get past............, search the archives........

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Jon Ison

posted on 20/1/07 at 03:30 PM Reply With Quote
Sad sod I am check out this five, yes five year old thread..............


Those where the days.........

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bob

posted on 20/1/07 at 03:48 PM Reply With Quote
If i remember right it was almost a free donington track day for jon and james,a limelight blunder that the lads took full advantage of






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Jon Ison

posted on 20/1/07 at 04:06 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bob
If i remember right it was almost a free donington track day for jon and james,a limelight blunder that the lads took full advantage of


Remember it well, I could see it all unfolding in front of us, so did James, we never said a word too each other, walked out n pi55ed ourselves, cost small a fortune in fuel though.......... I also remember the roundabout incident well, remember Jasper ? Took me days too come clean, Jasper thought I was some sort of demon roundabout expert type driver thingy, when in fact I just let him believe it and enjoyed the ego trip....., truth is to this day I don't know how we got round it in one piece..........

But, its been mentioned a few times before it really is time this was done again soon, bbq n beer at its best...........

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smart51

posted on 20/1/07 at 05:54 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Smart51, any chance of you being bothered to do the same graph as distance versus time? To see which should actually have the lead?


No problem, except the file is on my PC at work. The graph is scaled 0 to about 500 metres, as this is the kind of distance you cover getting to 110 MPH so something like a 5 metre lead is hard to spot.

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procomp

posted on 20/1/07 at 07:48 PM Reply With Quote
Hi i think that the only way to settle all this is to have a locost builders track day at some point.

But seriously it would be good to get a whole load of the forum and cars together for a day of fun.

cheers matt

Ok next round.

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bob

posted on 20/1/07 at 08:41 PM Reply With Quote
Yep matts right,it would be good to see who got it right and who needs a tow.

I'm sure somehere could be booked out for a day if not a weekend,food for thought.

You can only learn from a meet like that.






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Jon Ison

posted on 20/1/07 at 08:58 PM Reply With Quote
Yup, and run a handicap on cc and £'s spent on motor ??

End of story, BEC wins............

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DIY Si

posted on 20/1/07 at 09:11 PM Reply With Quote
Aye, anything under 1.2 gets a head start for only having a little engine! Money spent would certainly screw a few of the becs up though, as Dilley spent a silly amount on his! £7k IIRC! Just glad I'm happy with mine as it is.





“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War

My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/

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Wadders

posted on 20/1/07 at 09:21 PM Reply With Quote
A whole weekend locost trackfest, now that would be something, bring it on




Originally posted by bob

I'm sure somehere could be booked out for a day if not a weekend,food for thought.






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procomp

posted on 20/1/07 at 09:37 PM Reply With Quote
Hi could possibly mob book an already organised trackday of some sort.

But i can see the dissisions over where when being as big as the bec v cec argument it's self.

All though this has got to happen at some point with all the members on here who have running cars and all the members who would like to know how what they are building might perform once finished.

cheers matt

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Jon Ison

posted on 20/1/07 at 09:45 PM Reply With Quote
Cadwell park, sometime in summer, BBQ n party on the night of the event, not the night before......

Wake up next day, run into skeggy for fish n chips and blast up the prom.......



Just a suggestion.

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procomp

posted on 20/1/07 at 09:53 PM Reply With Quote
Hi right i have started a discusion in a new thread uneder clubs/events to see what the interest might be and where it might lead.

Will delete if people want to let it run here. others may wish for the cec v bec debeate to run on here without distraction .

cheers matt

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Jon Ison

posted on 20/1/07 at 10:01 PM Reply With Quote
OK, back too CEC v BEC, i have used this quote from an RGB race report before but it tells a story surely ??


Before the RGBs went out the Roadsports Championship had their qualifying session. The Roadsports Championship is an eclectic mix of sports cars, including Nobles, Porsches, a Morgan +8, a TVR Tuscan etc. At the front of the grid the cars will be costing well in excess of £50,000, and yet the pole winner (Noble) wouldn’t have made the top three in RGB! Furthermore, the third quickest Roadsports runner in a Noble M12 would have qualified fifteenth in RGB!



This does illustrate just how quick the RGB cars are, and whilst no one will ever say motorsport is cheap, the RGB Championship does represent incredibly quick and competitive racing for the money.

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smart51

posted on 21/1/07 at 10:06 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TangoMan
Looking at that second graph it shows the BEC changing into second at about 52-53mph.


With the wheels and tyres I chose, top speed in 1st is 53 MPH at the red line. With a 3.14 diff instead of a 3.62, it would do 61 in 1st, but it would also take 15% longer to accelerate to that speed.

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Hellfire

posted on 21/1/07 at 01:22 PM Reply With Quote
Quarter mile results from York last year should give some indication. Afterall, most people can drive quickly in a straight line.

Apart from the big HP car engines, the BECs finished ahead of the CECs.

Introduce corners on a trackday and driving ability would have a massive influence on the results, although I suspect the BECs would be even more dominant.

11.727 NOS Blackbird BEC
12.123 Nissan 200SX CEC
12.138 Honda S2000 CEC
12.523 ZX12R BEC
12.900 GSXR1000 K2 BEC
13.128 ZX9R BEC
13.274 Fazer 1000 BEC
13.280 954 Blade BEC
13.522 893 Blade BEC
13.555 893 Blade BEC
13.557 R1 BEC
14.131 ZX9R BEC
14.140 Tuned Pinto CEC
14.494 893 Blade BEC
14.675 Tuned Pinto CEC
14.740 2.0 Zetec CEC
14.803 1.6 Toyota CEC
15.260 Pinto CEC

So to answer the question..... BEC everytime

Phil






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smart51

posted on 22/1/07 at 08:21 AM Reply With Quote
The top graph shows the std zetec versus the std carbed R1 in metres versus seconds. You can see that the Zetec pulls an initial lead but after 30m, the R1 has pulled back. The second graph is the same but zoomed in on the upper corner of the graph. 408 metres = 1/4 mile. 12 seconds in, the r1 has a 50 metre lead. Rescued attachment acc dist.GIF
Rescued attachment acc dist.GIF

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smart51

posted on 22/1/07 at 04:10 PM Reply With Quote
For completeness, I thought I'd add graphs of the tuned 190BHP Zetec vs a typical BEC R1 tuned by 5% to 155BHP. The lines are so close as to show nothing.

The data shows that the 190 BHP zetec will pull a 2.5 metre lead buy 30 MPH / 1.7 seconds. The R1 will pull that back to zero at 52 MPH at 2.8s. 12.4 seconds in, the R1 BEC will reach 1/4 mile at 108 MPH and will have a 12m lead over the zetec. about 20 seconds after starting, the BEC will top out at 120 MPH with the tuned zetec just 5m behind. The zetec will probably reach 130 MPH.

I guess that proves once and for all that CECs are faster than BECs if you can afford to tune up to the required power - a 200 BHP zetec will match a basic R1 BEC.

The BEC vs CEC arguement comes down to this for me:

The free pinto in your donor cannot be beaten on cost. A cheap zetec installation is better for not much more.

Mid priced engines (circa £1K) A BEC is faster - much faster, and louder and probably better at braking and cornering than a similarly priced CEC, though not as good at reversing or cruising.

An expensive engne should hopefully be enormously fast, CEC or BEC. The relative merits of tuned Busas, Turboed R1s, supercharged Duratecs and blueprinted V8s are hard to compare. I think this is a true statement:

If you want cheap - CEC
If you want fast - BEC
If you want the fastest, quietest, most practical power train - get your cheque book out.

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CairB

posted on 22/1/07 at 09:45 PM Reply With Quote
Smart51,

What vehicle weights, including driver and passenger, did you use for the model in the comparison?

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smart51

posted on 22/1/07 at 10:08 PM Reply With Quote
610kg for the BEC including driver, 680kg for the Zetec. My BEC with all it's boot box and heavy sierra bits and padded seats, with me in it and a crash helmet and a full tank of fuel and a big bag of tools weighs 610 kg. I guessed that a zetec and type 9 would be 70 kg more.

[Edited on 22-1-2007 by smart51]

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