JoelP
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| posted on 27/1/07 at 10:13 PM |
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easy, pinch a nice engine and take it from there! 
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novacaine
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| posted on 27/1/07 at 10:16 PM |
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i was contemplating that myself, there quite light engines but i dont think it would fit in a bag....hmmm shame realy lol
And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but its sinking, Racing around to come up behind you again, the sun is the same in a relative way but
your older, shorter of breath and one day closer to death
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 27/1/07 at 10:18 PM |
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How impressive is this young guy!
Don't let anyone steal your dream son.
I wish you all the luck in the world.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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ayoungman
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| posted on 27/1/07 at 10:25 PM |
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From a safety point of view, your Much better off in a locost rather than a Mini. I wrapped a Mini round a concrete post at 50mph. the side impact was
so destructive, the gear lever was punched up through the roof. The only thing that saved me and my wife were the two steel framed bucket seats that I
had installed.
Insurance for you would be very reasonable too !
"just like that !"
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novacaine
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| posted on 27/1/07 at 10:31 PM |
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thats quite scary to say the least, well anyway the minis are becoming a rare (ish) car now and the prices are reflecting that, i could easily spend
more that £2000 in parts alone to restore a mini so that is prety much definatley off the list
And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but its sinking, Racing around to come up behind you again, the sun is the same in a relative way but
your older, shorter of breath and one day closer to death
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Hellfire
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| posted on 27/1/07 at 10:40 PM |
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Hey Novacaine - don't let anyone discourage you... you have a dream. Without a dream you have no ambition without ambition you have no future.
I'm sure your parents are trying the best for you but don't be too harsh on them. It's not you who are misguided. You seem to have
lots of motivation as already said - leave on hold the build but prepare for it... it is much easier assembling nice clean shiny parts.
Keep focussed on your school work lad, this will eventually help you in your build. Welding courses incidentally should be free for you at 16...
where's the sense I ask you? Good luck and keep living the dream...
Steve
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novacaine
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| posted on 27/1/07 at 10:46 PM |
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in regards to the peugeot engined single seater i build, ive just called u pone of the guys i build it with, he said school have already sold it 
but unfortunate but all i can say is it looked simmilar to the car that "cloudy" is building, just without the fancy wheels.
Hope you dont mind me pinching your pic cloudy:
http://www.digital-car.co.uk/wr4/bonnet/v1.jpg
Matt
And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but its sinking, Racing around to come up behind you again, the sun is the same in a relative way but
your older, shorter of breath and one day closer to death
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zetec7
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 03:09 AM |
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All I can say is "Don't give up!". If you can't do it now, you'll probably be in a position to do so in a couple of
years' time. Do as much learning as you can do for now. The welding course is a GREAT idea IMHO (I had to learn...okay, I'm still
learning...the hard way!). Build all the skills you can, and you'll be ahead of the game. And, if you can manage to assemble a collection of
important Locost bits on the side in the interim, you'll be very close when the time comes. If you're going to do a scratch build
(that's what I'm doing), put lots of time into designing the front suspension, as that's where a lot of people seem to have trouble.
You'll be happy you did!
http://www.freewebs.com/zetec7/
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MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 07:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
you'll have all girls gagging for a ride - which is your motivation.
Huh, I didn't know a seven appealed to the ladies. . . I'd better get a student loan quick!!!!
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TimC
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 09:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by novacaine
ive called the college up previously and it seems that if i wait until im 16 (march) i can take the courses for free.
i wanted a career in engineering/metallurgy, i have been on work experience at Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines (the place that makes the F1
engines) i was positioned in the design section for a week and the metallurgy section for a week and it was incredible, i watched on of the engines on
the dyno, i cant belive how good they are...im going back there in june time too
well im getting side tracked a bit there lol
Matt
[Edited on 27/1/07 by novacaine]
Apparently the way to get ahead for a young bloke in this game is to find Ron Dennis and tell him that you want to engineer (or drive) for him.
It worked for Lewis Hamilton!
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 09:34 AM |
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As a couple have said already, use the time to do a welding and fabrication course. Talk your Dad into signing up as well, he may even like it!.( Also
valuable one on one time together as well.) It's a skill that will be with you for life, and improves with experience.
You're only 15, so don't get impatient. My 15 year old is designing a racing dinghy, which he will build with my assistance. Not a lot of
difference. His two older brothers were building their own grass track mini's before they were 14, and racing them. My 17 year old has been
putting a Locost racer together for a couple of years as well. With a little oversight anyway. 
The idea of a mentor has a lot of merit, and is definitely a way forward, for anyone really. The expeience of someone who's
'doneit', is wirth years of hard learning.
Cheers,
Syd.
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iiyama
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 10:06 AM |
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Havent read all of this thread, so not sure if this has been mentioned. However, tell your parents that in order for the car to be roadworthy, (which
is your aim?), then the finshed motor has to go through an SVA. Explain to them what an SVA is, or direct them to one of the sites that does explain
what it is.
They should then fully understand that whatever you build will be safe!
As has been said before, dont give up! Nice to see a 15 year old with an ambition! Good luck!
[Edited on 28/1/07 by iiyama]
If its broke, fix it. If it aint broke, take it apart and find out how it works!
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 10:20 AM |
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Well what can I say that's not already been said??
First don't let the dream go. Second how impressed/jealous are all the guy/girls on here that a young man has a job/work experience with Merc
racing engines (some if not all of us would kill for a day at the factory) I can imagine it was no walk in the park getting in to that job. Third
you've also got a weekend job and are self financing the project.
Seems to me your a mature bloke (beyond your years) and should be encouraged to carry on that way. You could be like the rest of this countries youth
smashing windows drinking buckfast damaging cars and property and tying up police time. The only reason for not letting you do the project (if you
were my son) would be lack of space or if it meant my car was going to be left in the street.
To often in this country young energy/drive and talent are quashed. A nation of inventors now heading to be a third world country of wasters.
Good luck and don't give up.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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MikeR
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 01:06 PM |
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Perhaps you should take an analytical approach to this & remember, 6 months may seem an age to you, but its very little time at all when
you've got 70 years infront of you.
Tell your parents you'd like to sit down and have a chat with them one night of the week. Explain that you understand they have issues with you
wanting to build a car, you'd like to hear these point by point. You intention is to get a list of objections, go away and find a solution to
each one. You also accept that some of these objections might take a year or two to solve & your prepared for that.
They'll then come up with a list of things they're not happy about. Some of them will be (in your eyes) completely stupid. You accept them
without throwing any toys out of your pram / spitting the dummy. You write them down, stick them to your bedroom door and systematically cross them
off as you work round them.
EG1 School grades will suffer - agree to spend 1 hour a night working on school grades. If any grades drop below a 'b' (you said you where
currently an 'a' grade student) you stop car work during the week until grades improve. You also agree to do 'a' levels
(the last bit is going the extra mile and showing your parents that whilst your hobby is important, you've realised from all the comments on
here education is more important.)
EG2 you're going to make a stupidly fast car and kill yourself. You'll fit a 1000cc fiesta engine (not bike! ) which will give
performance equivilent to ?????. If parents pay for driving lessons at 17, you'll fund an advanced driving course and will only drive the car on
the road once you've passed.
EG3 the car isn't as safe as a modern car. Sorry, this is true in the respect they'll be thinking - no airbags, pre-seat tensioners etc.
You'll use 3" 5point harness (FIA spec) which is just as effective as pre-seat belt tensioners (racing cars don't have
pre-tensioners). Also state that unless they are going to buy you a car at 17, you'll only be able to afford an old rusty nova (probably saxo
by the time you get round to it). Whilst this may be marginally safer, its handling dynamic will be worse & you won't have as much love for
the car, hence won't be as careful.......
etc etc etc
when you come back with all the answers planned out - your parents will probably be a bit miffed. Suddenly they've got to face up to this. In
fact, leave it a few weeks before bringing up the idea of a sit down chat. then leave it a couple of weeks before coming back with the answers. It
gives them time to settle down, feel less hemmed in / pestered & shows your not giving up. In the mean time - READ. there is lots and lots to
learn.
final comment for now -
If you really want this - don't give up, take the long term view.
If you don't really want this - your parents are right to say no and make it difficult.
(lots of us non kit builders who are taking our time have gone through divorces / breakups etc but we all know, we'll get there in the end, for
its not how quickly you get there, its how much fun you have on the journey that counts )
final point - be careful about the mentor bit (expect your parents to hit the wall and start climbing). I'm sure everyone on here is decent,
but, football coaches / scout leaders etc all have to have police checks for a reason. Some people do try and pray on folks who a little younger &
you've just made yourself a target for someone doing a google search.
[Edited on 28/1/07 by MikeR]
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craig1410
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 01:12 PM |
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Hi,
Why not buy an SVA manual just so you can show your parents how detailed it is. Explain that normal production cars go through a similar test (type
approval) except only one or two actually get tested and the rest are assumed to be okay and rely on the quality standards of the manufacturer to
ensure that they are.
In your case your car will be seen personally and individually by an experienced engineer. It will probably also be seen by an MOT tester before hand
to check basic compliance before SVA. That's two sets of eyes over and above your own. Production cars don't even get an MOT until they
are 3 years old!
As has been offered above, get someone with a well built car to come round and show your parents. I'll bet your Dad at least will change his
tune and might be able to help you talk your Mum around!! 
All the best,
Craig.
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damien
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 01:23 PM |
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your parents sound like my misses, best thing to do is try and compromise with them, say wait until you have finished school before starting
Topaz gti6-tb 205 Gti (ph1.5)
Sigma 2.0 8v 306 XSI (ph1)
Provence 1.9 8v dturbo (ph2)
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novacaine
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 01:57 PM |
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good idea about the list of problems, i'll do that tonight, i understand that pi**ing them off is definatley no way to go about it.
thanks everyone for your comments, this thread has been realy useful, i'll sit down and talk things through, i'll go slowly so im not
forcing them to let me but more in the way of gentle perswasion.
im going to make a promise to myself that one way or another, either be it now or in 10 years time that i build a 7.
matt
And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but its sinking, Racing around to come up behind you again, the sun is the same in a relative way but
your older, shorter of breath and one day closer to death
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 28/1/07 at 02:53 PM |
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I agree 100% with MikeR's suggestions - that's a really practical way to approach things.
As for the mentor thing - good advice - maybe if a number of owners drive up together for a cup of coffee then your parents can see finished cars,
without things getting 'personal'. Even better, take your dad to a local get-together so he can see the cars without any direct
pressure.
Otherwise, if you don't want to force the 'build a 7' issue then restoring/improving a car is a very good and practical option. A
mini has been suggested, but a Mk 1 or 2 Escort is also cool, and could be a valuable asset if you do a good job (subtle mods, not chavvy). I'd
rather rebuild an Escort than a Mini, mostly 'cos the Escort was the first car I ever drove that had good handling and a nice gearbox!
As others have said: don't antagonise your parents, but find a good way forward with agreement all round. Life will be so miuch easier if you
do!
Have fun - you have the right attitude.
David
[Edited on 28/1/07 by David Jenkins]
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Catpuss
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 06:40 PM |
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From the sounds of it, as your parents have no probs with restoring a Mini or the like, their main issue would be the structural integrity of the
chassis.
Now you can solve that in a few ways. The first one, buy chassis and wishbones, built the chassis with someone who is a good/qualified welder, get a
good/qualified welder to make the chassis or builld it yourself then pay qualified welder to inspec the work after.
Some people have spoken to local colleges to get frames examined too.
On top of that, the SVA manual is a good suggestion. Especially coupled with "If I restore a Mini all I need is an MOT, at least with an SVA its
a through test".
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ady8077
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 07:41 PM |
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Hi Matt
To try and get your dad on side, why not hire him a seven for the day
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/experience/hire.html
He may even want to build one to
Adrian
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xico_ze54
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| posted on 2/2/07 at 03:16 PM |
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I'm impressed with this 15 y.o. boy. he reminds me with 17 trying to construct my first from a VW beetle platform, but no money in the
pocket.
I had to wait some 30 years to start one of the greatest dreams of my life.
so I'm one of those who say: "dont let your dreams never die".
but on the other hand its fair to see the point of view of parents. if he was my kid I just put the things on this way: make 18 and you are free to
get a driving license and drive your car, but sincerely I agree if he, with 15, can make good weldings, supervised with someone engeneer, he can drive
the car safely when he wil be 18.
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Rossy
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| posted on 18/2/07 at 09:32 PM |
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Build up the parts!
1st novacaine, as already said, build up the parts...then use Reverse psychology!
As the parts start to clutter up your perants house they will be begging you to put the thing together...it will take up less room!
Also, although I love my soon to be 15 yr son, with your enthusiasm see if your parents would do a swap? I've been trying to get my Son
"in to cars" and off his bl00dy PC for ...well 14 yrs...I think he was born with a PC in his hand!
Most children these days would rather spend a sunny day on some form of computer and altho being the garage is not exactly "out door" at
least its somthing construtive!!
Saying that I work in I.T. myself and he like writing his own games so it not all shoot um ups...
Good luck and be rest assured in that the guys on here will go out of their way to help...and stranger still...love going out of their way to
help..wierd!
:~)
Keep at it you will do it and more importantly if it take you a few years it will be a real head turner.....
[Edited on 18/2/07 by Rossy]
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jack trolley
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| posted on 19/2/07 at 06:55 PM |
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Tell your parents you're saving up for a motorbike instead.
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