simes43
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 10:44 AM |
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The shorter the circuit the less marshalls you need. The men in orange will need to be rotated during the event.
The circuit is more chassis than engine biased so the speed differentials would be far less than Snett or heaven forbid Mallory.
I believe it to be a lot easier to secure a permit in France than here. No ARDS etc
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takumi
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 10:51 AM |
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I was wondering the reason behind 'France' of all places..
I think we should try to keep the ideas as simple as possible..
I'd prefer a 12hr 'testing' session, rather than a full-bore 24hr.. just to test the format, and organisation of it first time
round..
For the same reason I think we should do our best to come up with a UK venue..
RobinHood 2B 2.0i pinto, Keihin 38mm Carbs, lightened flywheel, O'Mori remote filter kit, 10 row oil cooler. Modified head, 10.2cr, special
valves FR22 cam, 4- 1 header.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 11:02 AM |
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France!! Wont be very "locost" then - would mean a 500 mile round trip for me before any other costs (such as ferry with car) and i am
only as far North as Cheshire!!
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simes43
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 11:11 AM |
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France reduces the cost, hassle and MSA issues.
Circuit hire in the UK is now very expensive and the insurance premium etc is high.
Brands will cost 30 to 40 K to hire and be very difficult to get without a large down payment.
Keeping the entrance fee down will be the major concern for the organisers.
Plus it will be far easier to "sell" the idea to the gf/wife than a runway in Yorkshire!
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 11:34 AM |
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raf marham do charity events , a 12 hr seems more realistic .
youll defintely need more than 1 car per team , its alot safer , otherwise everybody has to have expensive refuelling equipment - who wants to be
showered in 10 litres of fuel in a hot car/exhaust .
they all need a transponder thingemy jig for laps .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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bobster
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 01:29 PM |
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Seems like there are some good ideas here.
1) I agree that a reasonably level playing field is required regards fuel capacity. Perhaps a limit per fill, decided by category.
2) With regards a 12hr vs 24 hour race then lets take a poll if we can get enough people interested.
3) Marshalls shouldn't be a problem, I have access to over 700 and a full stage team who would be happy to help us out.
4) I accept that refuelling stops are a potential danger zone. As an endurance event I think we need to limit the number of cars per team. (could be
done in categories). I suggest that we enforce a minimum time for the refuelling stops. ie forced to stop for 5 mins. This will ensure that everything
is done safely and any other checks that need to be done can be done. Also we don't get the car screaming off as the fuel filler is removed and
no expensive fuelling gear would be needed.
5) Definitely worth considering France as a venue. But it would be good to find a track in the centre of GB, so we can all get there in reasonable
time etc.
6) Lets keep throwing ideas out there and then maybe those that wish to help organise this could get together for a beer to get this thing off the
ground.
bobster
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 03:47 PM |
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To get around the fuel in the GOME event cars can only be refueled at the paddock pump, may mean queuing but its the same for all and with two cars
its up to the team to time it when the pumps are available.
I may upset a few but personally I think it should be limited to road registered cars with an current MOT and tax, if not someone will turn up with a
race car on a trailer guaranteed.
Keep the word "race" out of it and costs will be lower.
A venue in France would see me out, costs in both time and Money would negate it for me.
Hope you dont think I'm been negative, just offering an opinion.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 04:20 PM |
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what about people who arent registered on the road , but dont have a race car ?
surely that would be down to the organisers discretion , ie no slicks , definable 7 type chassis etc . IF mine doesnt sell , id like to take part ,
but i cant see an SVA or MOT in the future , but its no race car .
you could also measure the fuel consumption in 'qualification' , and given a 20% discrepancy , that sets your allowable fuel supply for
the 'time trial' meaning no sandbagging , and no huge motors either
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 04:28 PM |
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I did say at the risk of upsetting some people.
When you leave things to discretion there will always be arguments I'm afraid.
"well you let him enter in that"
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 04:49 PM |
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The fueling issue seems pretty simple to get around from a safety point of view really - dont allow the same car / driver to go out once they need to
refuel. If you have a tiny tank that only lasts 20 mins then you have to change after 20 mins (and then have an hour minimum to refuel so can be done
safely).
I guess the France issue has to be considered then - cheaper hire costs against ferry costs. RAF bases seem a good idea mind if they do charity events
at little or no cost. Loads of runoff area for the inexperienced!!!
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 04:51 PM |
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im not upset at all .
im sure theres a lot on here who are in final stages - who wont be road registered by then .
i find that theres a lack of places to run my car to test/evaluate , apart from track days which i suppose this is just a larger version .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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bobster
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 06:28 PM |
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too many guys on here and other build sites that have track cars or not road legal. The best way to do it would be to have them in a separate
class.
I have spoken to a number of circuit organisers today, most are reasonably keen. 2 main options would be
1) 2x8-12hour stints with a 12 hour park ferme in between.
2) 1x12 hour stint with a 'testing' and possibly categorising (can't use qualifying as it is too close to 'racing'
session the day before.
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simes43
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 06:34 PM |
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I would hope there is a balance between having fun and closeing potential performance loopholes. I have raced in many endurance events and can
honestly say that it is great way of spending a weekend. Its very different to 15mins round Brands
Probably worth a Reality Check Point on costs.
Most consumable items will be trashed, things break, tyres and brakes will not last 24 hours and fuel will not come for free. Anyone not contemplating
taking their car on a trailer is nuts.
Most endurance events are won in the pits, hence the fuel capacity limit. Cars will be adapted for a running in a long distance event by the
drivers.
Not allowing race cars or non SVA vehicles will rule out a lot of runners. Looking at the spec of most of the cars on this site, the only advantage I
would have is already having numbers on the side!
Running on a cheap control tyre may help keep the cost down and perhaps gain some trade support.
Perhaps a class structure to keep it interesting?
Up to 2000cc
Over 2000cc
BEC
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ernie
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| posted on 12/12/07 at 07:03 PM |
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I think you will find any race involving MSA licensed race drivers would have to be sanctioned by the MSA. A good idea though
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short track 123
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| posted on 15/12/07 at 11:37 AM |
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It has been said but a 24hr ( or 12hr ) track day would be a way to get round the msa licence thing.
Bobster if you need some help I would be intrested in helping out. Not sure what i could do but the offer is there.
Regard
Jason
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bobster
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| posted on 16/12/07 at 11:48 AM |
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I've had a chat with both silverstone and the guys that manage the tracks at snetterton, oulton park and brands hatch. The silverstone guys are
keen and i have to email the other crew with details.
I am currently thinking that the best option would be to book a track for 1 day and run a 12 hour endurance 'race'. Maximum laps wins,
with a bar-b-que and party afterwards. unlimited drivers but a minimum time per driver. minimum fueling stop time (say 5 mins). cars categories to be
assigned. All cars would need to acheive the minimum track day requirements (may be some additional requirements, such as max noise level etc). Any
thing i've forgotten? Costs are likely to be in the region of £3-400 per team. (if there are say 6 drivers per team this is around £50-60 each
plus fuel and comsumables!!!). I am hoping to persuade some sponsership as well. If it is a hit thee we can maybe expand some of these ideas for next
year. what do you guys think?
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blueshift
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| posted on 16/12/07 at 12:05 PM |
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I'll have to speak to work but they/we might be interested in providing datalogging support. We make GPS logging things and software to produce
reports of lap times and loads of other stuff, maximum apex speeds blah blah.
If this thing gets off the ground let me know, pretty sure my car won't be ready for it but would be interested to come along and spectate /
provide technical services 
we're Racelogic (www.racelogic.co.uk) btw, I am thinking in terms of loaning each team a performacebox for some kind of sponsorship.. have to
check with work tho!
We supported the Top Gear 24h that was on TV recently.. not that Clarkson listens when you tell him he's taking the wrong line etc
[Edited on 16/12/07 by blueshift]
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bobster
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| posted on 16/12/07 at 12:33 PM |
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that sounds great. thanks chris
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takumi
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| posted on 16/12/07 at 10:25 PM |
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I think the 12hr is more realistic.
Me and a friend would like to enter both our cars in 1 team, and drive them alternatively with 2 drivers per car say, this would both cut down wear
on each car, and spread the cost abit
I love the idea. bring it on...
I suppose the only difficult thing would be geting a big bunch of the transponders to time each car.. Unless you want to trust people to do it
manually written down on paper.. 'oh the old days...
engine conversion first..
[Edited on 16-12-07 by takumi]
[Edited on 16-12-07 by takumi]
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jeffw
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| posted on 17/12/07 at 10:07 PM |
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Would be interested in entering a team for this...
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jt04
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| posted on 18/12/07 at 12:49 PM |
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I think it's a great idea. I've done a few 24 hour races before and they are great fun. Personally I think the best thing to do is as was
said in a previous post.
Call it a 24 endurence distance test then it gets around alot of 'red tape'. Having the test at a race circuit could be a double edged
sword it has it's advantages and disadvantages. I believe what someone said earlier about contacting the RAF or Army about using say for example
a disused airstrip is a good idea as it would keep costs very low and say we'll donate all the money raised from entry fees to an armed forces
charity, plus it's good publicity for the armed forces and they could also enter teams free for example.
Seeing as this is going to be an endurence test being measured by distance you can get very cheap digital tacometers that clip into the car and cannot
be falsified this would be a good way to measure the distances.
Tyres shouldn't be a problem really control tyres a think are the best way to go and if we just stick with standard road tyres they will last a
24 hour distance. Looking a Le Mans cars they only cover aroun 3500miles in 24 hours the locost car i would expect to cover around 2000miles if that.
Getting a tyre supplier involved would not cause many problems.
Fuel again would not cause many problems as we elect a fuel supplier or just used the track pump if one is available as suggested and limit the amount
of fuel people and fill up with. Say for example the person who has the smallest tank only hold 5 gallons the other cars should only be allowed to
take 5 gallons of fuel to keep things on a even keel.
For any 24 hour test your going to get people that build a one off 'special' to go for outright glory. To minimise the risk of this I
think a tier system of classifying cars will be best like say class a for cars upto 1400cc, class b for cars upto 1600, class c for cars upto 1800cc,
class D for cars upto 2000cc and class E for cars 2001cc and above. With the fuel limit in place it would be silly to enter a Rover V8 as it would
just drink the fuel in very little time, this I know but i can't really see many people with v8 powered locost's entering this. For each
class you would have a class winner and that is the person that covered the most laps with 2nd and 3rd place prizes also being awared.
I got a few more suggestions if the organiser would like to hear them or would like help with the regulations side.
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bobster
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| posted on 19/12/07 at 10:35 PM |
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Looks like we're getting the format sorted. If anyone has any contacts in the raf or military then do they think it could be an option. i guess
the main problem would be insurance. very happy for proceeds to go to charity.
jt - very happy for you to throw your ideas onto this thread, or u2u me if you'd prefer.
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