rell
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 10:18 AM |
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GOOD MAN 
how did you do it
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timf
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 10:23 AM |
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screen grabber and psp
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GO
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 11:11 AM |
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Thanks lads.
It does look remarkably simple. Makes you wonder why they're so damned expensive to buy!!
rell, couldn't quite work out what you're doing with the injector boss though? And why the 70deg angle?
The only tricky bit, as rell says, seems to be attaching the butterflies so as to prevent air leaks.
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rell
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 12:27 PM |
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ok bit exsta on the drawing
still could not get it no jpg
ok 70 deg is because of the dizy on the xflow. the injector boss i have put on the drawing is just some 20mm bar stock but when i deside on which
injector to use i will machine it to sute.
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timf
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 12:37 PM |
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jpeg-ed
 
Rescued attachment trottle.jpg
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rell
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 12:39 PM |
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thanks againe
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rell
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 08:25 PM |
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ok just doing abit more on the drawing and come up with a fuw quiers.
ok do the shafts need to be sealed where the bushes are?
to balance the 4 throttles i was thinking of putting a small neddle valves to let a small amount of air in after the throttle valve is this
necessary?
any other point that you can see just tell me
ok 1 gold star the the man who spots the mistake
[Edited on 21/10/03 by rell]
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Northy
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 09:00 PM |
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Right, I've read this entire thread, and it doesn't make sense to me.
Can someone explain in laymens terms what your all going on about?
Thanks
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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rell
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| posted on 21/10/03 at 09:44 PM |
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ok what we are all on about (ok what im on about) is making my own throttle bodies these work like twin webers but better.
you will get more power with better power curve (run smoother) and you will get better mpg.
ok this is how it works you have throttle valves same as your twin webers but there are injectors behind them that supply the fule instead of the jets
in the carbs. injectors are better and more accurate at delivering the fule.
to controle the injectors im going to use kit that you can make your self called magasquirt.
how this works is you have a few sensors on the engine.
1)thottle position sensor
2)air temp sensor
3)water temp sensor
4)lamder sensor this is a sensor in the exhaust that tells the mega squirt wether it is rich or lean
5)R.P.M. lead that gose to the coil counts the number of sparks
there are uthers but i will not be useing them because thay are not needed.
now all these sensors send a signle back to the mega squirt unit whick in turn sends a signle out to the injectors. this signle verys depending on
what the sensor signles are.
the drawings are the plans for my throttle bodies thay are not finnished yet.
ok hope that cleared things up a bit. If not just ask and i will try to exsplain.
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 08:12 AM |
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Graham, things have moved very slightly off original post, bear with it.
The original post had links to a website that described and supplied, in detail, a DIY fully working Fuel only ECU (Engine fuel injection management)
known as a MegaSquirt.
I looked at as many of the sites as I could last night and I'm now looking at the MegaSquirtnSpark as a complete project.
This combines the fuel only MegaSquirt with an ignition module, making it a fully programmable by user, Engine Management system. This uses many
cheaply available sensors and an ignition module that is relatively easy to source in UK. (Ford Sierra CVH1800, Escorts between 96-99 etc)
The post then went on to discussion regarding injection throttle bodies. (The best bit of the system). Throttle Bodies (TB) are individual tubes per
cylinder taking place of a carb or single inlet. Each with its own butterfly to control air intake, joined obviosly by the spindle. Fuel Injectors are
fitted above each tube so that precise air/fuel mixtures can be set up by the ECU.
With a fully programmable ECU system it's possible to set the engine up at any revs and any load, although this takes time and possibly a
rolling road session.
With all of the above it's possible to get an engine to maximum power and efficiency along with smooth running.
To be honest I have a very nice smooth running engine fitted now, however by cutting the inlet manifold to lower it, the power has moved up the rev
range. With the standard factory ECU it's not possible to retune it, so I'm interested in the above.
Many of the builders using different engines come across the problem that the factory systems don't lend themselves to fit in a 7 without much
modding.
If you need any further info i'll happily post it. It's not a difficult subject once you have the basics.
Rob Lane
[Edited on 22/10/03 by Rob Lane]
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rell
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 04:53 PM |
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started a new topic just on the thottle bodies.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=8224&page=1#pi
d62882
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sgraber
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 05:43 PM |
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Hi Graham, Rob, others, I'll just add my .0002 American cents here...
The Megasquirt is a great product by itself as it provides an inexpensive, fully programmable fueling solution for the DIY hobbyist. This type of
product has always been out of reach of the average builder because of the cost. It's relatively easy for the DIY type of person that can solder
a board up to put one together. However, MegaSquirt by itself isn't a complete engine management package because it lacks ignition timing. My
link to the Picasso website details the missing piece--- An inexpensive and completely dependable DIY ignition that piggybacks right into the
MegaSquirt board! Don't miss this page: http://picasso.org/mjlj/index.jsp
Using a toothed wheel on the crank pulley to manage timing allows you to ditch the pesky distributor forever. Run coilpacks directly to the plugs.
Now you can hook a laptop up to a port on the side of the unit and adjust everything "on-the-fly" while you are driving. Best left to a
passenger! You can even install a 'glass cockpit' using an LCD to view all engine functions...
For the average driver of the average car, this type of adjustability is waay over the top, but if you love to tinker with stuff, love to do
everything your own way, want to extract that extra gram of potential from your engine, this is the way to go.
I my case -4AGE-, I want to replace the bulky intake using a quad of bike carbs for the throttle bodies, keep the injectors, run MegaSquirt and
MegaJoltLiteJunior(by Picasso) and then I will be able to bolt on a turbo system when I want to increase the horsepower.
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Northy
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 08:08 PM |
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Right, I'm cathching up now. I'm actually an electronic engineer, but know nothing about engines!!! 
Simle question, could one of these units be used as a distributorless ecu system for a set of carbs?
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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sgraber
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 08:13 PM |
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Northy, yes, absolutely. The MJLJ (picasso) can be used as a standalone ignition controller. Perfect for converting FI over to carbies!
It's simple and neat...
I'm still looking for downsides.... Anyone?
Graber
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Northy
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 08:47 PM |
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Any chance of an idiots guide for that one
I've read it mentions a MAP sensor, on carbs!
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 08:51 PM |
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So which UK cars can I find a Ford EDIS ignition module on. All the stuff refers to American vehicles ?
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sgraber
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 09:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by givemethebighammer
So which UK cars can I find a Ford EDIS ignition module on. All the stuff refers to American vehicles ?
Rob Lane suggests (Ford Sierra CVH1800, Escorts between 96-99 etc)
I believe you can use a throttle position sensor in lieu of a Map sensor. However, I simply don't know enough about it to give you a definitive.
(Still in research mode here...)
Edit > - Sorry- You need a MAP sensor as well as some other bits. See the FAQ on the MegaSquirt Website for all the details. < End Edit
My suggestion is to simply read and document all you can about the subject. Starting with those few links I gave you. That's the joy of the DIY
aspect. 
The Yahoo groups are FULL of good info. It just takes lots'a time to sift trhough it.
There is a great FAQ on the
MegaSquirt site for the fueling controller, but no good FAQ exists that I know of for the ignition side yet.
Graber
[Edited on 10/23/03 by sgraber]
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 22/10/03 at 09:19 PM |
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Found this - UK Fords with module fitted
 
Rescued attachment EDIS cars in the UK.jpg
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 08:39 AM |
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The list looks about right BUT be aware that some year crossover models
were fitted with the DIS module not the EDIS module. Look similar.
I've looked into ordering the Megasquirt partial kit and it works out at 30 pounds.
I have most of the other bits needed in my electronic junk box.
Like you Graber I'm running a 4AGE but i wanted a programmable
system to get the best from it.
Graham, for a carb setup you need the ignition system MegaJolt Lite etc.
NOT the Megasquirt which is really for fuel only.
A MAP sensor is for fuelling or intake feedback. MAP=Manifold Absolute Pressure
It's a small unit that converts from vacuum/pressure to an electrical signal.
It does this by the use of a small diaphragm inside.
Open the throttle and the inlet manifold creates a change in
vacuum/pressure which the MAP sensor converts.
Then this is fed to Fuel ECU to change the fuelling rate at the injectors.
The injectors open and close for each cylinder for a preset time governed by ECU,
when more fuel is required the injectors stay open longer.
With ignition it would give an indication of engine loading.
[Edited on 23/10/03 by Rob Lane]
[Edited on 23/10/03 by Rob Lane]
Edited to add carriage returns to
bring it all back from a 2 ft wide screen.
[Edited on 23/10/03 by Rob Lane]
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sgraber
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 02:43 PM |
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Rob, Excellent post.
So... How do you run a MAP sensor to quad throttle bodies? ie; my converted carbie throttles.
Steve
Steve Graber
http://www.grabercars.com/
"Quickness through lightness"
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Northy
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| posted on 23/10/03 at 10:18 PM |
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Just what I was going to ask
Cheers
Graham
Website under construction. Help greatfully received as I don't really know what I'm doing!
"If a man says something in the woods and there are no women there, is he still wrong?"
Built 2L 8 Valve Vx Powered Avon
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 24/10/03 at 07:56 AM |
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With carbs if you just drill one inlet tract you will get pulsing
of the MAP sensor and attendant erratic signal.
The answer is to drill all inlet tracts, fit mini insert
adaptors and join the flexy pipe with T pieces. This produces a smoother signal although not perfect.
Bit like doing 4 washer jets!
I used to have a pic of an install in my files.
I'll see if I can find it.
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garage19
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| posted on 26/10/03 at 08:17 AM |
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Looked at he megasquirt unit a while ago but decided i wanted to have somethin that would control ignition as well.
MJLJ looks really interesting!
I understand about hw most these systems work but I'm not very good with the eectronics side of it. So i have some questions:
1) Do i have to transfer the code for MJLJ to a chip using an eprom burner?
2) Is there a ready set ou PCB available yet?
3) If not how hard is it to make my own and is there any body out there that could burn the cde onto my chip?
Thanks,
Doug.
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rell
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| posted on 26/10/03 at 12:41 PM |
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I dont think you need a eprom burner you buy the chip with everything you need on it
the programable chip is not a eprom that is my understanding but i am not electronics expert
im just learning all about it my self but from what i can make out it is easy to build
but the tricky part is geting the thing to work with all the sensors and injectors, then the setup of the engine can be tricky.
but im sure with a bit of thort and Patience i think anyone can pull it off
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 26/10/03 at 08:08 PM |
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Here's the tricky part.
At the moment there is a small amount of useful info regarding the ignition MJlJ. As well as source code.
There is currently no group buy or ready made PCB.
There is a PCB design which I've printed off and
it's a simple one sided PCB, so very easy to make.
HOWEVER, there is no chip ready progged available, yet.
You will need a 68HC908GP33 programmer to prog in the code!
This is where things get tricky as the Willette programmer is now
on hold,
with no support available.
The alternative is the Motorloa one BUT I bet that costs a bit as it's a full developement environment.
The Willette programmer has a catch 22 ,
in that the progged chip for that is not available.
I'm still working my way through the large amount of info available on these systems. Lots of it still experimental.
It doesn't phase me but it's annoying when the trail runs cold.
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