scimjim
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| posted on 14/9/17 at 03:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SJ
quote:
uote:
Originally posted by SJ
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the
engine size.
They will insist on the right info being provided but they can't "refuse to acknowledge".
In my case it was nothing to do with information. It was evidence they wanted in the form of an engineers report. If by 'refuse to
acknowledge' you mean make no changes despite being informed, then that is exactly what they did.
This is the DVLA we are talking about.
[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]
[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]
By right info, I mean evidence as per their published requirements
By DVLA ineptitude, I provided a receipt, they asked for engineers report, I said no and quoted this page, they sent me a new V5 with new engine
details.
Change of engine number or cylinder capacity (cc)
You need to provide either:
a receipt for the replacement engine
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage (if the change took place before you bought the vehicle)
[Edited on 14/9/17 by scimjim]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 14/9/17 at 10:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker
chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going
to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
No I mean I'm under the impression you can't register it as a Dutton if it's going be a Q plate. Can you?
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SJ
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 07:04 AM |
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by SJ
quote:
uote:
Originally posted by SJ
The dvla can be awkward on changing the engine size. I tried to to change mine and they wouldn't believe me even though I was increasing the
engine size.
They will insist on the right info being provided but they can't "refuse to acknowledge".
In my case it was nothing to do with information. It was evidence they wanted in the form of an engineers report. If by 'refuse to
acknowledge' you mean make no changes despite being informed, then that is exactly what they did.
This is the DVLA we are talking about.
[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]
[Edited on 14/9/17 by SJ]
By right info, I mean evidence as per their published requirements
By DVLA ineptitude, I provided a receipt, they asked for engineers report, I said no and quoted this page, they sent me a new V5 with new engine
details.
Change of engine number or cylinder capacity (cc)
You need to provide either:
a receipt for the replacement engine
written evidence from the manufacturer
an inspection report provided for insurance purposes
written confirmation on headed paper from a garage (if the change took place before you bought the vehicle)
[Edited on 14/9/17 by scimjim]
Thanks - I wasn't aware of that list of requirements. They just asked me for an engineers report like you.
I'll give it another go!
Cheers
Stu
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Oi_Oi_Savaloy
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 07:54 AM |
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Just a short update. I'm going to buy the car. Whether I can get a discount on the price agreed remains moot. Nevetherless; I'm buying
the car.
It's going to come with an MOT so I know it's roadworthy. I'm going to do a trackday (99% certain it'll be at Pembrey on 1st
October) and then I'm going to take it up to Anglesey where my mechanic (and some students from a local engineering college) are going to take
the car apart in order for all of us to understand what it's going to take to get it through the IVA. When I raced in Stockhatch Rallycross -
briefly in a Rover Metro 1.4k series in 2003-2007, I was able to do a deal with this local college whereby they looked after the car and prepared it
and I paid for anything that needed replacing/improving/upgrading. Some of the passionate students also became my crew on racing weekends.
It might take a year. Might take 3 months. Might take 2 years but whatever - it's not going on the road until it has it's own correct
identity and is IVA'd.
Not sure how to retire the current id it'll come with (SORN for eternity? Can I get a car dismantler to 'scrap it' for me? is there
a legitimate way of doing that?) Really not sure of the legalities on that one.
All I know is is that I can't insure it for the road (or for trackdays) under it's current guise. But I don't want any other
Striker - I want this one. I realise 'I want' never gets and it sounds v childish when I write it down but for alot of reasons I've
now decided that this car needs to have it's own identity, in my ownership and it's my money (and other people's hard work in the
team) that's going to get her back on the road in her own right. So that's that.
I realise this could be an extremely fraught process and ultimately I might lose alot of money - and still end up with just a trackday car (I'm
not selling the car on with the wrong ID). So be it.
I gather that the nearest IVA to Anglesey is in Birmingham for example (not had time to look this up so might be wrong) - so that's a
significant cost (in time and money) alone. And if it fails.....we'll have to go back again.....so this one is definitely one that's
going to take time.
I'll have the previous chap's build diary, I'll have our build diary - we'll replace the bits that don't meet the IVA
process as we go through the car and take it from there. I've budgeted another £1,500 or so to get it through (it'll be on the drip
rather than all upfront so manageable) and there aren't any labour costs which fundamentally changes things. the students might use the car and
it's IVA as a final year project - it's a little more interesting than a 10 year old Ford Focus etc etc. But that's not confirmed
and there's no pressure from me to get it into the college or anything.
I realise some of you are going to be disappointed/incredulous, despite the excellent advice received here, but I just feel like this car needs to be
brought back into the fold and loved, in it's own right. And I need to do right by the Dutton owner's and their club too to help them
keep incorrect Dutton's off the DVLA register.
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Paul_Arion
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 08:17 AM |
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Well I for one am amazed - this could all end in tears with the car in the crusher!! 
It's your money however after all - and I think many will realise that no matter what was said here that you were going to buy it.
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Dopdog
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 08:44 AM |
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So you have decided to buy it, lets see it then as no one else wants its lets see what all the fuss is about.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 08:58 AM |
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Oh dear, after 6 pages of reasons not to, from people who know IVA and DVLA process and risks, and have 1st hand experience of building cars.
Sounds very much like an Andy Pipkin - ' I want that one'
Hope it doesnt turn into his other common phrase 'I dont like it'
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loggyboy
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 10:42 AM |
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Credit where credit is due, this chap is going to take a ringer off the road, and get it sorted. As long as the price is right for him then there is
no issues.
Not like hes sticking his hands over his ears, shouting LAA LAA LAA, and just buying it and sticking yt on road regardless.
Hes making an informed decision so there are no problems.
Mistral Motorsport
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Paul_Arion
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 10:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Credit where credit is due, this chap is going to take a ringer off the road, and get it sorted. As long as the price is right for him then there is
no issues.
Not like hes sticking his hands over his ears, shouting LAA LAA LAA, and just buying it and sticking yt on road regardless.
Hes making an informed decision so there are no problems.
I think the concern that many will have is that if he finds there is no legal way to put it back on the road (other than a new chassis from Raw and
build it up from scratch with an IVA and then officially scrapping the Dutton) then it may just end up back on the road as a ringer
"Dutton".
AFAIK - you cant simply give the chassis a new number and it'd be interesting to see what DVLA make of any attempts to register it - IVA or not.
Anyone any experience of turning a "ringer" into a legal car??
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 11:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker
chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going
to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
No I mean I'm under the impression you can't register it as a Dutton if it's going be a Q plate. Can you?
I'm confused by your question! It's very simple, almost all Duttons will have a Q plate since they were mostly made in an era prior to
the SVA when a Q plate was allocated to kit cars, the 'Q' indicating the car was of indefinite origin. The only exception would be
Duttons that illegally retained the donor registration - the DVLA had an amnesty prior to the SVA to get these cars correctly registered.
The whole point of the ringing exercise is to (illegally) avoid the work and expense of an SVA/IVA, so people buy a cheap Dutton and simply use
it's VIN/Plates/V5. You'd obviously want to buy a Dutton on a Q plate for this purpose, since if it still had it's original donor
reg it would be useless to you.
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Toys2
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 12:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A striker was built, someone purchased a dutton (or the remnants of one, possibly just the V5!), put the number plate and VIN on the the Striker
chassis.
[Edited on 11-9-17 by loggyboy]
But it's on a Q plate? Why would anyone buy a dutton V5 to Q plate it, why not just register it from scratch?
because it bypasses the cost and effort of passing an IVA. It may look well put together, but if it was built in the knowledge it wasn't going
to pass anything more than an MOT, I would hazard a guess a great deal of time/effort and probably cash will be needed.
No I mean I'm under the impression you can't register it as a Dutton if it's going be a Q plate. Can you?
I'm confused by your question! It's very simple, almost all Duttons will have a Q plate since they were mostly made in an era prior to
the SVA when a Q plate was allocated to kit cars, the 'Q' indicating the car was of indefinite origin. The only exception would be
Duttons that illegally retained the donor registration - the DVLA had an amnesty prior to the SVA to get these cars correctly registered.
The whole point of the ringing exercise is to (illegally) avoid the work and expense of an SVA/IVA, so people buy a cheap Dutton and simply use
it's VIN/Plates/V5. You'd obviously want to buy a Dutton on a Q plate for this purpose, since if it still had it's original donor
reg it would be useless to you.
That's not strictly true, pre SVA there was a points system, if you had the V5 from a single donor and could demonstrate that enough of the
major components came from it, then you could keep the original reg, the make and model on the V5 would be changed. IIRC you'd need Engine,
gearbox, suspension and steering. The registration process just needed that the kit passed an MOT and a 10 minute inspection by the DVLA to confirm
that the description was accurate and numbers matched
Obviously this doesn't change the "ringer" part of the story, but it is possible to have a legal none Q Dutton
[Edited on 15/9/17 by Toys2]
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ReMan
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 12:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_Arion
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Credit where credit is due, this chap is going to take a ringer off the road, and get it sorted. As long as the price is right for him then there is
no issues.
Not like hes sticking his hands over his ears, shouting LAA LAA LAA, and just buying it and sticking yt on road regardless.
Hes making an informed decision so there are no problems.
I think the concern that many will have is that if he finds there is no legal way to put it back on the road (other than a new chassis from Raw and
build it up from scratch with an IVA and then officially scrapping the Dutton) then it may just end up back on the road as a ringer
"Dutton".
AFAIK - you cant simply give the chassis a new number and it'd be interesting to see what DVLA make of any attempts to register it - IVA or not.
Anyone any experience of turning a "ringer" into a legal car??
Presumably you SORN the existing "ringer" for ever.
Then remove any identification of the vehicle, chassis number etc
Then submit for IVA as an amature build from parts of unknown orgin, for a Q plate?
[Edited on 15/9/17 by ReMan]
www.plusnine.co.uk
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loggyboy
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 12:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul_Arion
I think the concern that many will have is that if he finds there is no legal way to put it back on the road (other than a new chassis from Raw and
build it up from scratch with an IVA and then officially scrapping the Dutton) then it may just end up back on the road as a ringer
"Dutton".
AFAIK - you cant simply give the chassis a new number and it'd be interesting to see what DVLA make of any attempts to register it - IVA or not.
Anyone any experience of turning a "ringer" into a legal car??
Thats exactly what you can do - A new VIN on an old chassis is not ringing, ringing is swapping one to another.
Providing he is happy to get the car to an IVA standard he will have no issues regsistering as a 'new' Q plate.
Mistral Motorsport
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kingster996
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 01:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by Paul_Arion
I think the concern that many will have is that if he finds there is no legal way to put it back on the road (other than a new chassis from Raw and
build it up from scratch with an IVA and then officially scrapping the Dutton) then it may just end up back on the road as a ringer
"Dutton".
AFAIK - you cant simply give the chassis a new number and it'd be interesting to see what DVLA make of any attempts to register it - IVA or not.
Anyone any experience of turning a "ringer" into a legal car??
Thats exactly what you can do - A new VIN on an old chassis is not ringing, ringing is swapping one to another.
Providing he is happy to get the car to an IVA standard he will have no issues regsistering as a 'new' Q plate.
Putting a new VIN on and IVA-ing sounds right - but it won't then be allowed to be called a "Sylva Striker" will it?
Surely you can't just grind numbers off, stamp on DVLA ones and then call it anything - otherwise every (dodgy) man and his dog would call their
home built Locost a "Caterham" when they applied to the DVLA so they could try and sell on to some unsuspecting punter.
At least this chap sought advice and considered it all before buying and went in eyes open (hopefully with a hefty price drop) rather than paying over
the odds for a stinky ringer and finding that out later.
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure
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JimSpencer
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 01:25 PM |
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Strikers (or older ones anyway) I don't think came with any numbers on the chassis - or certainly mine didn't the 'Chassis
number' was whatever one made up, stamped into a 'chassis plate' off ebay or a Chassis Rail.
I've read the OP's last post and can't see anything wrong with what he's planning - discard the original dodgy I.D. and start
again - perfect gets the car back on the road and track correctly - which is all any enthusiast can want.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 02:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
Putting a new VIN on and IVA-ing sounds right - but it won't then be allowed to be called a "Sylva Striker" will it?
Surely you can't just grind numbers off, stamp on DVLA ones and then call it anything - otherwise every (dodgy) man and his dog would call their
home built Locost a "Caterham" when they applied to the DVLA so they could try and sell on to some unsuspecting punter.
At least this chap sought advice and considered it all before buying and went in eyes open (hopefully with a hefty price drop) rather than paying over
the odds for a stinky ringer and finding that out later.
You can call it what you want, to letter of law it just needs to not be fraudulent. Calling it what it is, is of course fine. No doubt it is a
striker, and if it wasnt would need Raw to bother mount a legal protest if they weren't happy.
Mistral Motorsport
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Irony
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 02:56 PM |
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If he SORNs the ringer forever will it matter that he has a car that technically doesn't exist attached to his name? Will this cause some
unknown problems later on.
I IVA'd a car that was built for SVA. It essentially sat in a garage for 11 years and I had no trouble getting it through.
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kingster996
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 03:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JimSpencer
Strikers (or older ones anyway) I don't think came with any numbers on the chassis - or certainly mine didn't the 'Chassis
number' was whatever one made up, stamped into a 'chassis plate' off ebay or a Chassis Rail.
I've read the OP's last post and can't see anything wrong with what he's planning - discard the original dodgy I.D. and start
again - perfect gets the car back on the road and track correctly - which is all any enthusiast can want.
That's great news for the OP then. Could be a good result all round.
I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure
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r1_pete
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 03:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Irony
If he SORNs the ringer forever will it matter that he has a car that technically doesn't exist attached to his name? Will this cause some
unknown problems later on.
I IVA'd a car that was built for SVA. It essentially sat in a garage for 11 years and I had no trouble getting it through.
I'd want shut of the existing reg docs as soon as possible, who knows what changes the government will make to sorn in the future, having docs
only of a sorn'd car which technically no longer exists, could lead to all sorts of problems.
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 03:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
I'd want shut of the existing reg docs as soon as possible, who knows what changes the government will make to sorn in the future, having docs
only of a sorn'd car which technically no longer exists, could lead to all sorts of problems.
possibly even better to not have any official paperwork (ie V5) put in the new owners name.
get the current owner to record the dutton as scrapped.
but this will cause problems since its just being moted...
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bonzoronnie
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 04:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Credit where credit is due, this chap is going to take a ringer off the road, and get it sorted. As long as the price is right for him then there is
no issues.
Not like hes sticking his hands over his ears, shouting LAA LAA LAA, and just buying it and sticking yt on road regardless.
Hes making an informed decision so there are no problems.
Have read this hot topic with great interest.
Going to say I am with Loggy on this
My main issue would have been the potential of buying a stolen car that had been rung.
I am sure the OP has or is satisfied this is not the case.
Options open for OP
Enter into dialog with Raw, perhaps they would be willing to provide a Vin number.
Sure they would like to see a correctly registered Striker on the road.
If the chassis was never stamped by Raw when manufactured, contact DVLA for Vin number for a kit car.
IVA the Striker & get it road registered.
Once on the road, Notify DVLA that you have personally scrapped the Dutton. ( There is a section on the V5c for you to do this )
I have personally scrapped several cars & notified DVLA via the V5c
Never had an issue, they have always acknowledged & updated their records.
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ReMan
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 04:12 PM |
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Therotically the only way to do that now is through an ATF licenced facility, who of course will want the scrap metral in exchange for their name on
the form
Though you might get away with the self scrap if you write to them and get them on a good day.
Id expect the current owner to not go that route, as that will implicate him further and in not excecuted to your satisfaction could have them looking
for this scrap car, possibly banging on your door for it and siezing it ?....
www.plusnine.co.uk
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leon51274
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 05:43 PM |
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As per my previous post I was also a victim of a ringer and still have the dodgy dutton v5 on sorn, I purchased a complete bare chassis to scrap with
the v5 as the scrappers weren't willing to just process the paperwork without there actually being a vehicle, he said that dvla did spot checks.
In the eyes of the law it's still not correct what I'm doing but there is no other way round it other than opening a can of worms with
dvla.
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Oi_Oi_Savaloy
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| posted on 15/9/17 at 05:44 PM |
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I'm hoping that the VIN number on the striker isn't the same as on the current v5c - if it is that's going to cause me a problem and
I'm not going to buy it - I'm not getting into grinding off stamped vin numbers etc etc. I didn't ask (and check) about whether the
v5c vin number matches the one (if there is one) on the car.
I'm hoping it doesn't - I want a clean (free of vin stamps) so I can retire/scrap the current v5 it's hiding under, prepare the car,
in a legitimate manner for it's IVA, and do right by the Dutton owners, 'legitimise' my car for road-use and carry on with life.
I'm not going to buy it if I can't do that.
I didn't notice a chassis plate but then again I didn't particularly look for one. Perhaps I shouldn't admit that but there we go.
But this way I get to do three things - retire the wrong the V5 documents, get my striker IVA'd and correctly registered and update/upgrade the
car as we go through it at an initial price I can afford and on a basis, going forward, that I can cope with.
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 16/9/17 at 09:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'm confused by your question! It's very simple, almost all Duttons will have a Q plate since they were mostly made in an era prior to
the SVA when a Q plate was allocated to kit cars, the 'Q' indicating the car was of indefinite origin. The only exception would be
Duttons that illegally retained the donor registration - the DVLA had an amnesty prior to the SVA to get these cars correctly registered.
The whole point of the ringing exercise is to (illegally) avoid the work and expense of an SVA/IVA, so people buy a cheap Dutton and simply use
it's VIN/Plates/V5. You'd obviously want to buy a Dutton on a Q plate for this purpose, since if it still had it's original donor
reg it would be useless to you.
This was the bit I was not aware of. Currently you couldn't the systems are in place to stop this, I was not aware of the historic system
allowing it.
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