Mr Whippy
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| posted on 19/1/21 at 04:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by russbost
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Well the lock down and testing will never be perfect but without it in the results would have been like the plague.
With a survival rate of well over 99% Covid is about as comparable to the plague as comparing apples with chalk!
Hmm a bit lower than 99%, but yes the plague was about 10 times worse but there were a lot of other factors that caused that due to when that
happened. If Covid had happened at the time of the plague then the mortality rate would have been very high.
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joneh
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| posted on 19/1/21 at 04:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Well the lock down and testing will never be perfect but without it in the results would have been like the plague.
With a survival rate of well over 99% Covid is about as comparable to the plague as comparing apples with chalk!
Hmm a bit lower than 99%, but yes the plague was about 10 times worse but there were a lot of other factors that caused that due to when that
happened. If Covid had happened at the time of the plague then the mortality rate would have been very high.
The Who put IFR at 0.14% back in October. ONS put it at around 0.49%
Your diagram ignores anyone who hasn't been tested or the aforementioned 25% FNR, The 90,000 are also deaths with Covid as a contributing
factor, i.e. not the cause.
The plague had an IFR of 35 - 45%, although we can't be sure as a lot of towns declared everyone dead as a tax fiddle!
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steve m
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| posted on 19/1/21 at 05:57 PM |
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I am sorry to say, but the figures dont add up, My Son and Daughter inlaw, as did a Brother in Law, and family, both had Covid back in Feb/March 2020,
and lost smell taste etc for a good few months, yet were never tested, so those figures are wrong
There are people walking about in shops right now, who have Covid, but dont know, equally there are death reports of covid related death, but was 100%
not, and an Aunt had exactly this, infact, a Dr never came out to see her, after her death, it was all done on the phone, as she was in a care home
None of the figures, no matter what are going to be right so arguing amongst yourselves as to who has the right figures, is just laughable for all
those readers watching this thread
I dont give a poo if 100 people or 60 million people have in theory or on a spreadsheet somewhere got this Covid disease in the UK, but i and my
family dont want it, and as such we are staying inside, im bored as fuck, but we seem to be safe
I obviously do care, if someone has contracted the virus, or at worst Died, but my comment above reflects that no one knows THE EXACT FIGURES,
No one, the NHS dont know, the Scientists dont know, the Government, and i include ALL parties dont know nor does any other fourth parties
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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joneh
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| posted on 19/1/21 at 06:15 PM |
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Yup, UCL reckon 1 in 10 over the UK have had it based off their antibody testing, but again based off sampling.
I wouldn't want it either, but if the government changed to a two tier approach, and let me make my own decisions I'd be happy to go back
to the office, shops, etc.
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russbost
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| posted on 19/1/21 at 07:47 PM |
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Well, you can look at whoever's figures you want, but comparing Covid to the bubonic plague is a non starter, whether you call it a 0.1% or a 2%
death rate with Covid, it's not even ball park with the black death, but hospital facilities were marginally worse back then whatever you might
think of the NHS now!
I think we're currently slightly past the max hospital admissions we're going to see & probably at or around max deaths, from graphs
looks as tho' it's starting to plateau, give it another couple of weeks & things are probably going to look a little rosier, but I
doubt Gov are going to do anything now either until after half term or when they've vaccinated at least 95% of the first 4 levels they wanted
done.
I've personally seen some very weird scenarios during the more recent part of the pandemic, my son in law's grandfather, in his 80's
was in hospital with what was basically flu/pneumonia & family were told he was dying, however they were also told he had tested "partially
positive" for Covid! WTF??? That's like being a bit pregnant! They were allowed to see him b4 he passed, but had to all gown up & were
told they'd need to self isolate afterwards - they all went & got tests & all tested negative on 2 tests 4 days apart - Grandad will
have gone down as a Covid death, he clearly did NOT die from Covid
My wife's uncle, aged 96 & with mild to moderate asthma had to go into hospital 10 days ago as an emergency, ironically 1 day b4 his
scheduled Covid jab. He went in on Sunday night, had the urinary problems addressed over the next couple of days, then on Thursday night they
announced his admission swab had tested positive for Covid - what's the point of testing someone if the result is going to take that long to
come back??? However, he was completely symptom free, he was tested again on Saturday (6 days after admission) & again tested positive, they sent
him home yesterday with a care package, he's still completely symptom free, but has to self isolate until this Weds evening
Our neighbours across the road have 4 sons, the youngest brought it home from school with him for Xmas, so they all had to self isolate, 6 people, one
household, all had tests only 2 of the remaining 5 were positive & they were completely symptom free, the father (in his 50's) tested
negative, but had a bout of the worst flu he's ever had, seems very odd & very coincidental, his missus had bowel cancer & chemo about
18 months ago, so is still classed as at risk, weak immune system & yet she was completely symptom free although testing positive!
One of the guys at our running club, a coach, absolutely fit as a flea, had to self isolate around early Nov as someone else in his office tested
positive, he felt fine but self isolated, then came down with it big time, struggling to draw breath, absolutely zero energy etc., but not
hospitalised - he's recovered OK, but first time he attempted to run, about 3 weeks after initial "recovery" had to stop as
couldn't draw breath, he was only running 5k, since then he's gradually got back to somewhere near his previous level of fitness
tho' probably still around a half minute per km slower than he was back in October
It really does seem completely illogical & just doesn't seem to follow a set pattern at all, as others have said, I definitely don't
want it, but I most certainly do want my life back & I'd be a LOT happier if more of the decisions were given to us to make, unfortunately
as has proved from many illegal gatherings if you allow people to make their own decisions they will frequently be unfair & selfish.
Let's just all agree to disagree, no such thing as a wrong opinion (unless it disagrees with mine! ) & keep fingers crossed that
we're soon out of this mess!
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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snapper
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| posted on 19/1/21 at 08:48 PM |
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Today...
The number of people who have died in the UK after testing positive for coronavirus has risen by 1,610 in 24 hours – the highest daily increase so far
recorded during the pandemic.
It brings the total number of deaths in the UK to 91,470.
It is expected that whilst infections will drop over the next few weeks deaths will increase as it take 28 days (sometimes more) for deaths to match
infection rates.
There is no good news right now but we expect there to be better news by end of February.
Be aware the projection for having all adults vaccinated is now September...
It ain’t over yet but if we continue to wear masks wash hands and keep our distance we will help the vaccine to do it’s job
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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JC
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 02:36 AM |
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Russ,
There was an interesting piece on the Radio interviewing a Newcastle United Footballer. Apparently they had an out break at the club and a reasonable
number of the players developed Covid. As ‘elite’ athletes, their health parameters are monitored routinely and so the effects of the disease could
be measured.
Some players were asymptomatic, no effect on performance.
Some had symptoms, were affected but recovered.
Some had symptoms, outwardly recovered, but 6 weeks later are still only 80% back to previous fitness levels.
I believe it has a lot to do with ‘viral load’ I.e how much of the virus you inhale.
A small viral load takes longer to multiply and so the bodies immune response has a better chance of suppressing the disease.
A large viral load has more of a chance to do damage before the immune response defeats it.
It’s weird. My Niece, who is an NHS nurse, contracted mild Covid and passed it on to my Brother in law (niece still lives at home). However my
sister neither developed it nor tested positive.
@Steve - I feel for you! I’ve only met you once but what you are going through must be really tough. You are clearly a creative man - have you tried
learning any digital skills to occupy your brain? Create something electronically rather than physically? Or maybe make some online videos where you
can pass on your experiences to others? Tough, I know, but stick with it, - there’s light at the end of the tunnel asp day this time it isn’t a train
coming the other way!
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SJ
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 03:58 PM |
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quote:
Well, we lose around 500-550,000 a year on average, so I doubt 2020 figures will actually look a great deal different
According to the ONS it's more like 650k+. The only objective measure is deaths as a percentage of population. I looked back to 2006 and it goes
up and down year on year. 2020 is a bad year, but only very slightly worse than other bad years. IMO the difference certainly doesn't merit the
reaction.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 07:08 PM |
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Bit of a sad day today - the funeral of my wife's 92-year-old uncle, who died of covid-19. He wasn't partially well anyway, and could just
as easily have died of flu if he'd caught that.
The funeral was in South London, about 80-90 miles from where we live, but of course we were unable to attend. My wife could only watch via a video
link. His brother, my father-in-law, is 96 and there was no way that he could travel from his home in Gloucester.
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joneh
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 07:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Bit of a sad day today - the funeral of my wife's 92-year-old uncle, who died of covid-19. He wasn't partially well anyway, and could just
as easily have died of flu if he'd caught that.
The funeral was in South London, about 80-90 miles from where we live, but of course we were unable to attend. My wife could only watch via a video
link. His brother, my father-in-law, is 96 and there was no way that he could travel from his home in Gloucester.
Sorry to hear that. It does make me angry the position we're in now when so much more could have been done.
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steve m
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 07:35 PM |
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"Sorry to hear that. It does make me angry the position we're in now when so much more could have been done."
Like what exactly?? Sorry, But David is a very dear friend, as we were in the original builders of our locosts, and fore bearers of this club
But exactly what could of been done for David and his family to off attended the funeral ?
Move the whole ceremony 60 miles north of South London so he could attend ?
probably mean the South London portion of the family couldnt !!
Theres a BIG reason why Funerals are limited to 30 people, and that includes the staff/bearers, its to avoid any form of contact between groups,
especially those form different areas
Sorry David to here of your news, its a sad time we live in at the moment
steve
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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joneh
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 07:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
"Sorry to hear that. It does make me angry the position we're in now when so much more could have been done."
Like what exactly?? Sorry, But David is a very dear friend, as we were in the original builders of our locosts, and fore bearers of this club
But exactly what could of been done for David and his family to off attended the funeral ?
Move the whole ceremony 60 miles north of South London so he could attend ?
probably mean the South London portion of the family couldnt !!
Theres a BIG reason why Funerals are limited to 30 people, and that includes the staff/bearers, its to avoid any form of contact between groups,
especially those form different areas
Sorry David to here of your news, its a sad time we live in at the moment
steve
I think you've misinterpreted my comment. I'm not suggesting things could have been made different specifically to attend the funeral.
Things that could've been done different:
The NHS could have not discharged up to 20,000 positively tested patients back to care homes.
The winter surge was expected. Why did the UK dismantle the Nightingale hospitals?
The UK could have done a much better job at shielding, like provided PPE & advice to care homes as a priority.
The UK could have provided much better information to individuals regarding looking after their own health.
All MPs that have seen this as a money making opportunity should be held fully accountable.
I'm baffled why anyone wouldn't be angry at the UK position, unless they're a through and through Boris supporter.
Edit - just to add, no offence was intended but my sincere apologies if any was taken.
[Edited on 20/1/21 by joneh]
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joneh
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 08:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by roadrunner
According to our doctor, 25% of people that test negative for Covid are actually positive. 
I've been thinking more about this, and its still not right.
A false negative rate isn't 25% of people that test negative. It's 25% of the amount positive tests.
So, using todays figures, the number of false negatives isn't 25% of (579,194 - 38,905) it's 25% of 38,905. (assuming they are all
genuine positives)
So not 135,072 but 9,726.
The WHO have today issued guidance on dropping the ct or cycle value to remove false positive rates.
False + from ALL tests
False - from actual +'s only.
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starterman
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 08:31 PM |
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Best thing to do is shoot all the fecking ponlife that still won't follow the rules!!!!
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steve m
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| posted on 20/1/21 at 10:46 PM |
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Im with Starterman, although i wouldnt shoot them, i would inject them with a live covid and wait for them to spread the news within there inbred
moronic pondlife retard friends
That will mean more jobs, and an awful lot more un polluted air for the sensible ones who are staying safe and looking after our family's etc
Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at
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joneh
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 08:20 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Im with Starterman, although i wouldnt shoot them, i would inject them with a live covid and wait for them to spread the news within there inbred
moronic pondlife retard friends
That will mean more jobs, and an awful lot more un polluted air for the sensible ones who are staying safe and looking after our family's etc
Whilst the above is distinctively reminiscent of the Nazis, I don't think infecting a very large portion of the population with Covid will aid
towards ending this pandemic. Remember rules are set by politicians, rather than scientists. Some of the rules, take the 10pm rule were completely
counter productive and advised against by the experts. Locking down London and giving everyone a day to pack onto busy trains and leave was frankly,
insane. Some of the rules SHOULD have been ignored, as advised by experts, as they did more damage than good.
Don't swallow the line that we're in this mess due to "rule breakers". This is what the government will inevitably blame it
on, rather than holding up their hands. It's government failings that have led us here. They've seen this as a money making exercise and
it will end in prison sentences for some.
Every country in Europe, with policies ranging from a hands off minimal social distancing, no masks, to a police enforced lockdown is doing better
than the UK.
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starterman
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 08:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by joneh
quote:
Originally posted by steve m
Im with Starterman, although i wouldnt shoot them, i would inject them with a live covid and wait for them to spread the news within there inbred
moronic pondlife retard friends
That will mean more jobs, and an awful lot more un polluted air for the sensible ones who are staying safe and looking after our family's etc
Whilst the above is distinctively reminiscent of the Nazis, I don't think infecting a very large portion of the population with Covid will aid
towards ending this pandemic. Remember rules are set by politicians, rather than scientists. Some of the rules, take the 10pm rule were completely
counter productive and advised against by the experts. Locking down London and giving everyone a day to pack onto busy trains and leave was frankly,
insane. Some of the rules SHOULD have been ignored, as advised by experts, as they did more damage than good.
Don't swallow the line that we're in this mess due to "rule breakers". This is what the government will inevitably blame it
on, rather than holding up their hands. It's government failings that have led us here. They've seen this as a money making exercise and
it will end in prison sentences for some.
Every country in Europe, with policies ranging from a hands off minimal social distancing, no masks, to a police enforced lockdown is doing better
than the UK.
Bollocks
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Slimy38
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 08:40 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by joneh
Locking down London and giving everyone a day to pack onto busy trains and leave was frankly, insane.
Yep, this is the one (and other very similar ones) that just didn't make any sense for me. But I'm not sure how else it could have been
done? If they had given people seven days warning most people would have left it 6.5 days before doing anything about it.
The government do get some grief and I'm not saying they're perfect (far from it), but the general population is stupid. It's not
difficult to judge how long 2 metres is. Or realise a mask won't help if it doesn't cover nose and mouth.
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Toys2
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 10:30 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by joneh
Locking down London and giving everyone a day to pack onto busy trains and leave was frankly, insane.
Yep, this is the one (and other very similar ones) that just didn't make any sense for me. But I'm not sure how else it could have been
done? If they had given people seven days warning most people would have left it 6.5 days before doing anything about it.
The government do get some grief and I'm not saying they're perfect (far from it), but the general population is stupid. It's not
difficult to judge how long 2 metres is. Or realise a mask won't help if it doesn't cover nose and mouth.
I can sort of understand people's wish to continue with their plans at Christmas, that said, we changed our plans and so did many others
A similar one that winds me up, is when they announce that pubs will be closing the next day due to high infection rates. The crowds of people that
still go out for "one last almighty wee up"
The same happened with the crowds cramming their Christmas shopping
Those are truly examples where people should've acted more responsibly
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joneh
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 10:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Toys2
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by joneh
Locking down London and giving everyone a day to pack onto busy trains and leave was frankly, insane.
Yep, this is the one (and other very similar ones) that just didn't make any sense for me. But I'm not sure how else it could have been
done? If they had given people seven days warning most people would have left it 6.5 days before doing anything about it.
The government do get some grief and I'm not saying they're perfect (far from it), but the general population is stupid. It's not
difficult to judge how long 2 metres is. Or realise a mask won't help if it doesn't cover nose and mouth.
I can sort of understand people's wish to continue with their plans at Christmas, that said, we changed our plans and so did many others
A similar one that winds me up, is when they announce that pubs will be closing the next day due to high infection rates. The crowds of people that
still go out for "one last almighty wee up"
The same happened with the crowds cramming their Christmas shopping
Those are truly examples where people should've acted more responsibly
Absolutely correct. This touches on Slimy38's point as well. The rules and deployment of the rules do not take in account human nature, people
piling into the streets, buses, trains and tubes at 10pm, when before there were staggered pub closing times. Mind bogglingly stupid, but forced to
do by the rule.
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Toys2
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 11:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by joneh
Absolutely correct. This touches on Slimy38's point as well. The rules and deployment of the rules do not take in account human nature, people
piling into the streets, buses, trains and tubes at 10pm, when before there were staggered pub closing times. Mind bogglingly stupid, but forced to
do by the rule.
No one 'forced' anyone to choose to go to the pub or go Christmas shopping, they made their own decisions, not the government
Did they have to go to the pub? - No
Did they have to go Christmas gift shopping? - No
Our local police chief put it better than I ever could, when he was asked about a public figure breaking rules, setting a bad example
He said that we should stop looking at what others are doing and make our own choices. Do we need to drive to a walk, when there is one closer? Do we
need to make that shopping trip, when it could wait until the next big shop? etc etc
I couldn't agree more with him at the moment, with high cases, we all need to take personal responsibility, limit physical contact and
unnecessary travel. This is nothing to do with blame, this is to do with everyone taking positive action
It's so so simple, Covid can't spread without contact, limit contact
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joneh
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 11:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Toys2
quote:
Originally posted by joneh
Absolutely correct. This touches on Slimy38's point as well. The rules and deployment of the rules do not take in account human nature, people
piling into the streets, buses, trains and tubes at 10pm, when before there were staggered pub closing times. Mind bogglingly stupid, but forced to
do by the rule.
No one 'forced' anyone to choose to go to the pub or go Christmas shopping, they made their own decisions, not the government
Did they have to go to the pub? - No
Did they have to go Christmas gift shopping? - No
Our local police chief put it better than I ever could, when he was asked about a public figure breaking rules, setting a bad example
He said that we should stop looking at what others are doing and make our own choices. Do we need to drive to a walk, when there is one closer? Do we
need to make that shopping trip, when it could wait until the next big shop? etc etc
I couldn't agree more with him at the moment, with high cases, we all need to take personal responsibility, limit physical contact and
unnecessary travel. This is nothing to do with blame, this is to do with everyone taking positive action
It's so so simple, Covid can't spread without contact, limit contact
I'm agreeing with you, but I didn't say they forced them to go to the pub, that was within the rules and people are allowed to live their
lives. The rule forced people to leave the pub at 10. People will want to live their lives, do things they enjoy, no matter how daft other people
may think that is. That is what the rules should take into account.
Your police chief sounds like a very sensible chap and he's absolutely right. We should be able to make our own choices, but can't as
their are rules in place! In some instances, the answer to those questions will be yes. Someone else mentioned that the rules may prevent them
driving to a secluded area for their usual walk, now they have to walk in their busy village! In this instance, the rule is counter productive.
Don't you agree?
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Toys2
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 12:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by joneh
I'm agreeing with you, but I didn't say they forced them to go to the pub, that was within the rules and people are allowed to live their
lives. The rule forced people to leave the pub at 10. People will want to live their lives, do things they enjoy, no matter how daft other people
may think that is. That is what the rules should take into account.
Your police chief sounds like a very sensible chap and he's absolutely right. We should be able to make our own choices, but can't as
their are rules in place! In some instances, the answer to those questions will be yes. Someone else mentioned that the rules may prevent them
driving to a secluded area for their usual walk, now they have to walk in their busy village! In this instance, the rule is counter productive.
Don't you agree?
Whenever there's an argument or discussion about covid, people seem to use use black or white examples, when in truth, there is a solution in
the middle ground
Everyone is allowed to live their lives, but I also think that everyone has a responsibility to look out for each other, I think that it is reasonable
to hope that people would amend their behaviors for the benefit of others, maybe cut down how often they visit a pub (when allowed!)
Those people leaving the pub at 10pm, could've choose to leave at 9:45pm, (some sweeping stereotypes to follow  ) The could choose to spend a
great night with 5 friends, without getting bladdered and hanging around outside the pub afterwards
I don't really have to explain the difference, between 6 mates having a good night, sitting around a table, with a reasonable distance between
themselves or 20 mates swapping tables, shoulder to shoulder, then gathering outside off license afterwards
The rules haven't forced them to do that, they have chosen that they want to act that way, that's what I mean by personal responsibility
and choice
The police chief was actually talking about the "driving for a walk" issue, his response was to be sensible and ask yourself if you are
doing the right thing
Clearly those ladies getting fined in Derby was wrong, in most cases a friendly chat with the police, wouldn't result in a fine
There is no 'law' to saw that you are not allowed to drive X distance to go for a exercise, there is guidance (Which is vague!!) but again
everyone has to ask themselves, do I need to drive 1 mile or 5 miles? If my local area was too busy, I would drive to the next closest place that is
safe.
But how many people are using it as an excuse to drive further than they need to? This was discussed during the first lockdown, the best advice I
heard, was that you should not be driving past a place that you can safely walk, just to get to your favorite spot
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joneh
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 12:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Toys2
quote:
Originally posted by joneh
I'm agreeing with you, but I didn't say they forced them to go to the pub, that was within the rules and people are allowed to live their
lives. The rule forced people to leave the pub at 10. People will want to live their lives, do things they enjoy, no matter how daft other people
may think that is. That is what the rules should take into account.
Your police chief sounds like a very sensible chap and he's absolutely right. We should be able to make our own choices, but can't as
their are rules in place! In some instances, the answer to those questions will be yes. Someone else mentioned that the rules may prevent them
driving to a secluded area for their usual walk, now they have to walk in their busy village! In this instance, the rule is counter productive.
Don't you agree?
Whenever there's an argument or discussion about covid, people seem to use use black or white examples, when in truth, there is a solution in
the middle ground
Everyone is allowed to live their lives, but I also think that everyone has a responsibility to look out for each other, I think that it is reasonable
to hope that people would amend their behaviors for the benefit of others, maybe cut down how often they visit a pub (when allowed!)
Those people leaving the pub at 10pm, could've choose to leave at 9:45pm, (some sweeping stereotypes to follow ) The could choose to spend a
great night with 5 friends, without getting bladdered and hanging around outside the pub afterwards
I don't really have to explain the difference, between 6 mates having a good night, sitting around a table, with a reasonable distance between
themselves or 20 mates swapping tables, shoulder to shoulder, then gathering outside off license afterwards
The rules haven't forced them to do that, they have chosen that they want to act that way, that's what I mean by personal responsibility
and choice
The police chief was actually talking about the "driving for a walk" issue, his response was to be sensible and ask yourself if you are
doing the right thing
Clearly those ladies getting fined in Derby was wrong, in most cases a friendly chat with the police, wouldn't result in a fine
There is no 'law' to saw that you are not allowed to drive X distance to go for a exercise, there is guidance (Which is vague!!) but again
everyone has to ask themselves, do I need to drive 1 mile or 5 miles? If my local area was too busy, I would drive to the next closest place that is
safe.
But how many people are using it as an excuse to drive further than they need to? This was discussed during the first lockdown, the best advice I
heard, was that you should not be driving past a place that you can safely walk, just to get to your favorite spot
Completely agree.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 21/1/21 at 03:52 PM |
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I think it's the vagueness that rankles - I simply don't know whether I can drive 15 minutes to my favourite deserted beach or not.
It's all academic, as we've chosen not to go there at the moment anyway.
As for walking round locally, we went out today and met about 6 people we know well (we stayed well separated!). I say we kept separated - a local
pillock walked between us, muttering that social distancing ws a load of b*ll*cks and he wanted nothing to do with it. I don't think he heard
me call him a prat... although I wasn't exactly whispering... he's an anti-social pillock at the best of times - I think he's in
training to be the next village idiot!
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